THE
BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS
VOLUME TWENTY-TWO
INDIANA LEGISLATURE
IN SENATE.
FRIDAY, Jan. 30, 1885 - 10 a.m.PRINTING OF BILLS.
Mr. FOWLER called up his proposed amendment to the rules, so that when a committee report favorably on a bill but seventy-five copies shall be printed if the committee so recommend. He said it will cost $10,000 this session to print bills under the rule as it now stands.
Mr. YOUCHE opposed the amendment. The present rule is an improvement on the practice session, and there would be less expense under the present rule than was incurred during the past one or two Legislatures. Unless bills are printed but few members on which they will be called upon to vote. It is an easy matter when bill is of small importance for some Senator to move that it be not printed.
Mr. MARSHALL: Many bills are of a dangerous character of legislation. The Alien bill of several years ago was not printed, and it passed both houses easily. If it had been printed it would not have passed, and that bill has been of great damage to the people of the State. Every Senator should have a fair chance to understand the provisions of every bill - especially those reported favorably from committees.
Mr. McINTOSH was of opinion there was already been more printing this session than during the whole of last session. He spoke of the stringing out of the printed matter unnecessarily, which increases the cost. When a bill is read some member can determine if there are vicious principles in it, and if so, it can be ordered printed. He hoped the amendment would be passed in the interest of the economy.
Mr. SCHLOSS thought it for the information of every Senator to have bills printed. Enough time has been spent in discussing this question to pay for the printing of probably fifty bills. He demanded the previous question.
The Senate seconded the demand for the previous question, and under its operations the proposed amendment to the rules was rejected by yeas 12, nays 30.
SESSION HOURS.
Mr. FOWLER called up from the files his notice for an amendment of the rules so that the daily sessions shall commence at 9 o'clock a.m.
Mr. McCOLLOUGH opposed the amendment. He desired the Senate should be as industrious as possible, but as we all know the work of this body now is being done in the committee rooms. With a little more attention, the business is this Chamber can be done in four hours per day. Committee members should not be compeiled to sit in committee rooms till 11 and 12 o'clock at night, when so much time is idled away in open Senate.
Mr. WILLARD: SO far as the amendment would be economy in time, it would have the contrary effect. An early hour for meetings would show no quorum present, and possibly force and early adjournment on that account. it is well enough later in the session when all the committee work is in, to meet earlier, but now it would prove an absolute loss of time.
Mr. FOWLER desired a change so that members might have a chance to blow off their gas between 9 and 10 o'clock and so be able to get down to business by 10 o'clock. He believed as many members would be here at 9 as at 10 o'clock. It is the general page: 125[View Page 125] desire that there shall be no extra session, and let us work with that view. He insisted the amendment should prevail.
The amendment to the rule was rejected by yea 17, nays 28.
Mr. FAULKNER (explaining his negative vote): If rule 15 were enforced we would gain more than this hour between 9 and 10 o'clock
THE STATE'S TREASURE INVESTIGATION.
Mr. FOULKE: I rise to a question of privilege. A few days since you did me the honor, Mr. President, to appoint me as a member of a committee to whom was referred that portion of the Governor's message in regard to the State Treasury, which committee was required to report whether an investigation was proper and necessary. A state of facts has occurred since that time which, in my humble opinion, renders it impossible for any man who respects himself to continue longer a member of a committee whose only purpose, as he believes is to stifle an investigation in regard to which it was authorized to inquire. I wish to lay this matter before the Senate and ascertain whether the Senate desires, under the circumstances that I should longer remain a member of the committee. The committee met on the afternoon of day before yesterday at the Bates House -
Mr. McCOLLOUGH (interrupting): I rise to a point of order I don't think there is any question of privilege about this. The Senator proposes to state what has occurred in the Committee room. I don't think he has nay right to make that sort of a statement under the claim of a question of privilege.
Mr. FOULKE: I should be very glad to refer to Senate as to what are questions of privilege under parliamentary law. They are questions relating to the conduct of the members, and the complaint of one member against another. These have been decided and questions of privileges - as to the conduct of a member, and as to whether or not it is proper that I shall continue longer a member of a committee -
Mr. McCOLLOUGH (interposing): I insist on my point of order.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: I will refer this question or order to th Senator from Lawrence (Mr. Willard) and the Senator from Marion (Mr. Winter) to decide whether this a question of privilege or not.
Mr. WILLARD: When would you like to have a report from this committee.
The LIEUTENTANT GOVERNOR: At once - immediately.
While this committee was in consultation -
Mr. Duncan, of Brown, introduced a bill [S. 201] for the relief Joel L. Davis, and authorizing the refunding to him of certain damages paid into the treasury of Bartholomew County, which was read the first time.
Mr. WILLARD: The committee agrees that this matter introduced by the Senator from Wayne (Mr. Foulke) is not a question of privilege, and bases the opinion upon the following authority: [Reads] The Senator from Wayne seems to think it is a question of privilege to ask to be excused from service on a committee. It is decided otherwise. [Reads.]
Mr. FOULKE: I will ask, sir, not as a question of privilege, to be excused from serving on that committee, and desire to state the reasons why I ask.
Mr. WILLARD: That is not in order, under our regular order of business We should have to suspend the regular order of business.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: The Senator from Wayne (Mr. Foulke) will take his seat.
Mr. FOWLER: I move that the regular order of business be suspended that the Senator may state why he does not wish to act further with the Investigation Committee.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: I hope there will be objection.
Several Senators - "Consent," "consent," "regular order"
Mr. FOULKE: On the occasion of the first meeting of the Investigation Committee the State Treasurer was invited by some members of the majority to be present, and no objection was made whatever by any member of the committee. The committee, after attending to some preliminary business -
Mr. McCULLOUGH: I have no objection to everything that has been done before that committee being told: but if the Senator is to have the floor to make a speech we should the right to reply.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: I requested the Senator from Wayne to take his seat until the motion should be decided by the Senator from Lawrence and the Senator from Marion, and they have decided against him.
Mr. McCULLOUGH: I object to the Senator taking the floor in this manner for the purpose of delivering a political speech. He does not seem to understand that he is returned with the minority here, and that the majority have the responsibility upon them; that same spirit which caused the minority four years ago to dictate what the legislation should be and what not be has shown itself in this case, and the minority on that committee are determined to have their own way about it or refuse to act. The committee will in due time make a report, when the minority can also make report. I object to him making insinuations against the members of the committee.
Mr. FOULKE: It is unfortunate in the extreme -
Mr. WILLARD (interrupting): I rise a point of order. The Senator from Wayne has no right to come upon this floor and impugn the motives of any other member of a committee.
Mr. FOULKE: I impugn the motives of no one.
page: 126[View Page 126]Mr. WILLARD: You are doing it. If he is not satisfied with the action of the committee he has a regular parliamentary remedy. He can make a minority report in such language as he sees fit to use, and if the language is not proper he is amenable to the rules of the Senate.
Mr. FOULKE: I have had, as I understand it, consent of the Senate to state the facts upon which I am asking to be excused from serving on the committee.
Mr. WILLIARD: You have not stated the facts.
Mr. FOULKE: I was proceeding to do so when interrupted by the Senator from Gibson (Mr. McCollough)
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: I intended to call your attention to the fact that objection was made.
Mr. FOULKE: If the majority of this Senate feel that they can afford not only to stifle the treasury investigation in their committee, but also to stifle an account of the transactions of their committee upon the floor of the Senate, I am content. [Calls of "order" and raps of the gavel caused the Senator to raise his voice to a high pitch.]
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR [rapping with his gavel]: The Senator will take his seat. Bills on the second reading was the order at the adjournment, and under the rules, I suppose, that order shall be continued.
SHEEP PROTECTION.
Mt. Hilligass't Sheep Husbandy Encouragement bill [S. 79] coming up in regular order, it was read the second time.
Mr. HILLIGASS: This bill provides that a registry of sheep killed shall be kept, and the sheep paid for in the order in which they are registered. That is fair and just. It makes it impossible for the Township Trustee to give preference to his neighbors in the payment of losses The bill also provides that the surplus funds shall be apportioned pro rata between cities and towns. It is well known a great portion of the tax levied upon dogs comes from cities and towns, and it is proper that cities and towns should have their pro rata share of the surplus.
Mr. CAMPBELL, of St. Joseph: It seems to me there would be a decided propriety in recommitting this bill to the Committee on Agriculture for this reason: There are two if not three other bills on this same subject now before the Committee on Agriculture, a report on which has been delayed because some Senators want to lay these bills before a convention of sheep raisers to meet in this city some time soon.
Mr. HILLIGASS: Out of courtesy to the Senator from St. Joseph I consent that the bill may be referred to the Committee on Agriculture.
It was so referred with an amendment proposed by the Senator from Elkhart (Mr. Davis), which was not read.
SALE NOTES.
Mr. FOWLER's bill [S. 112] to cut off fraudulent sales of personal property was read the second time.
Mr. SMITH, of Jay, moved to amend so the Recorder shall receive the same fee for recording sale notes as for recording chatall mortgages.
Mr. FOWLER: These bills of sales might cover many pages, and it might be injustice to require an officer to record them at the same price as chattel mortgages. It seems to me the bill ought to pass just as it is. It proposes t give the officer compensation for what he does and nothing more.
The amendment was rejected.
Mr. WINTER moved to amend so the Recorder's fee shall in no case be less than fifty cents.
Mr. WILLARD moved to strike from the amendment the word "less" and insert in lieu of the word "more"
Mr. FOULKE: I don't think the amendment would be just to the Recorder. There are instances where such instruments cover eight or ten pages, and it would not be fair to say the fee for recording shall not be more than fifty cents.
Mr. MAGEE: The Recorder is the lowest paid officer in the county. He is not paid sufficiently in some counties to support himself and pay necessary clerk hire. I think the motion of the Senator from Jay was right. I am opposed to the amendment to amendment.
It was rejected and the amendment [Mr. Winter's] was agreed to.
The bill was ordered engrossed.
INSANE WOMEN TRANSPORTATION.
Mr. Smith's of Jennings bill [S. 73] to provide that a female attendant shall accompany insane women while being conveyed to and from the Insane Hospital and that the Superintendent shall have $2000 per month set aside as a fund for contingent expenses what remains at the end of each month to be returned to the Treasury, coming up in regular order -
Mr. McCLURE: This bill is for the convenience of the Superintendent who now has to pay current expenses out of his own picket, and then depend on making out of a bill and collecting it when the next monthly meeting of the Board of Trustees takes place. It adds no more to the expense.
Mr. MAGEE: This bill should be amended so as to apply to all the other Insane Hospitals.
Mr. SMITH, of Jennings: The part relative to female patients could not be made to apply to the other hospitals, but the setting aside a contingent fund might He moved to suspend the constitutional rule that the bill might be passed to the final vote now.
Mr. MAGEE: I think this way of suspending the constitutional provision is all wrong.
The motion was rejected by yeas, 24; nays, page: 127[View Page 127] 18 - the required two thirds not voting in the affirmative.
Mr. CAMPBELL, of St. Joseph, explaining his negative vote: Section 1 of this bill seems to contemplate that whatever has heretofore gone to the Sherrif for mileage in the transportation of female patients to and from the Insane Asylum shall go to the Superintendent of the institution. It seems to me the aggregate profits would be very large. And I apprehend there are no other features in this bill which the Senate should carefully consider. Therefore I vote "no"
On motion by Mr. Smith, of Jennings, the bill was read the second time.
On motion by Mr. MAGEE it was referred to a select committee of three [Messrs. Magee, Smith of Jennings, and Foulke] with instructions to amend so it shall apply to all the insane hospitals, which committee soon returned the bill to the Senate with said amendments.
Mr. SMITH, of Jennings: This bill is intended to provide a humane way of transporting female patients to and from the Hospital for the Insane. There is such an inhumane practice now in vogue which we can not endure any longer. I move to adopt the report of the committee to which the bill was originally referred, and also the amendments reported by this special committee.
Mr. MACY: In my opinion this bill proposes to take from the Sheriffs of the various counties a duty which is devolved upon them by the statutes, and give it to the Superintendents of the Hospitals for the Insane. For that reason I don't think it should be passed. I believe the fees and emoluments of the Superintendents of the Hospitals from this source would amount to thousands of dollars. I move to make this bill a special order for Thursday at 2 o'clock p.m.
Mr. WINTER: There are several things in this bill which should receive much more careful consideration. The law which now regulates the transportation of patients to the Insane Hospital makes ample provision for female attendants; it does not use the word "female," but it covers the case. There is ample provision made to send not only a female assistant tot he Sheriff, but some female relative of the patient. The Superintendents of hospitals, according to the provisions of this bill, are to have the compensations now allowed assistants. Section 2,871, R.S. of 1881, allows eight cents per mile to every assistant both ways, which, by this bill, is to go into the pockets of the Superintendents of these asylums. I don't for one moment imagine it was intended anything of that kind should be done under this bill. Again, I do not understand why $2,000 a month for contingent expenses should be put in the hands of the Superintendent of the central hospital and $1,000 a month in the hands of each of the Superintendents of the other hospitals. Twenty-four thousand dollars and $36,000 makes $60,000, which is a large sum of money to be disposed of in that way. Therefore I think the motion to postpone the consideration of this bill should prevail.
Mr. MAGEE: That section is not properly guarded in relation tot he compensation for bringing patients to the asylums.
The motion to postpone was agreed to.
