IN SENATE.
MONDAY, March 21, 1881--10 a. m.The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR commanded attention while prayer was offered by Rev. J. N. Beard.
Mr. LANGDON offered a resolution referring the bill [S. 325] concerning offices and officers to a Special Committee of one from each of the Standing Committees of Finance, Judiciary, Organization of Courts, Elections, and Fees and Salaries, to the report by bill or otherwise, at the earliest day practicable.
Mr. COMSTOCK was sure all Senators felt an interest in the fair consideration of all bills coming before this body, and did not believe a reference of this bill would facilitate the dispatch of business. The bill has merit in it aside from fixing fees and salaries, after that part of it were stricken out, and it was his intention to make such a motion at the proper time. A very safe way is to go on and consider the bill by sections.
Mr. KRAMER agreed with the remarks just made. It is very questionable whether this Legislature will have time to touch on the subject of fees and salaries during this special session, and it is better to go ahead wi h this bill as has been commenced. When the part referring to fees and salaries comes up it may be referred to the Committee on Fees and Salaries.
Mr. LANGDON regarded the only objection to this resolution is that the Senate is as ready to consider this bill of 139 large printed pages as well without a first reading, and as well without a second reading, as after it shall be considered the Committee proposed in the resolution. That is stretching very far the ability of the Senate, to say it can take up a bill of this kind and consider it, as it were, extemporaneously, and on its first actual reading. While the Senator from Spencer [Mr. Kramer] because of his experience in the discharge of the duties of public office, may consider himself competent to proceed with the bill, it is not safe for the rest to proceed on the rule as the Senator. The people of the State demand a revision of the fees and salaries of officers--there ought to be a fair compensation for such officers, but none of them ought to get rich at public expense. The fees in this bill are in defiance of public opinion, and ought to be wiped out. The subject should be taken hold of fairly, squarely and manfully, so no one should wring from the people sums of money far in excess of the value of services rendered to the public. The action of the people should not be ignored on the Constitutional Amendment recently enacted. The safe and judicious way is to refer this bill to a Committee composed as indicated in the resolution, if it is the intention to go into legislation so comprehensive at this session.
Mr. BRISCOE, if such reference would facilitate business, would not oppose the resolution. But suppose a Special Committee works on this bill from this hour, when it comes back it will have to be reconsidered section by section, and in what way would time be saved? Already over 100 sections of the bill have been considered, and if this plan is continued it will be perfected much sooner than if referred to the Committee. The fees in this bill are the same enacted by the Legislature two years ago, and which probably the author of this resolution voted for. He hoped the resolution would not prevail.
The yeas and nays were demanded on the adoption of the resolution. and being ordered and taken resulted--yeas, 13; nays, 18.
No quorum voting--
A recess was taken till 2 o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR directed the Secretary t resume the reading of the bill [S. 325] concerning offices and officers, commencing at Section 100.
On motion by Mr. KRAMER, a substitute section was adopted requiring the Secretary of State to send the acts and journals hereafter by express to the persons and Counties entitled to copies thereof.
Mr. BROWN called up the resolution pending at the time of the noon recess.
Mr. SPANN desired to know why the author offered such a resolution at this stage of the reading of the bill.
page: 62[View Page 62]Mr. LANGDON, as a member of the Revision Committee, was not present when this bill was considered in the Committee, and understood it did not receive the attention of a full Committee. Then the bill has not yet been read in the Senate. More matter is incorporated in this bill than relates to the compensation of officers, and a Committee can more quickly and carefully consider the bill than it can be done in the Senate.
Mr. RISTINE offered a substitute for the resolution, that the sections of the bill referring to fees and salaries be referred to the Committee on that subject.
Mr. CHAPMAN opposed the substitute and favored the original resolution. There was an hour when he was willing to bow down before the Board of Codifiers, but that hour has long since passed. He did not think the Board of Codifiers has done any work worthy the consideration of the Senate. If they have done any work worth $4,000 a year, as is proposed in a bill before this General Assembly, he would like to see it, or any portion of it. The work of the codifiers of this bill is a recommendation that we re-enact the Constitution of the State. We sit here like solemn owls, and delibrate on the question whether or not we shall adopt, for instance, Section 82 (relating to the Governor). If it were not adopted, would we have to send out a discoverer to find out where the executive power of the Government is lodged?
Mr. GRAHAM favored the committal of that part of this bill relating to fees and salaries, for the purpose of taking away an infamy that is now before the Senate. He saw no necessity for referring the other portions of the bill.
Mr. GRUBBS opposed recommittal of the bill. If it is intended to kill the bill, kill it right here and now. He would not oppose the substitute; but the Senate should proceed with the consideration of this bill section by section, get it out of the way, and then take up other necessary legislation.
Mr. SPANN saw no necessity for referring this bill to a Committee, except that part referring to fees and salaries. He thought an unwarranted attack has been made on the Codification Committee, believing that Committee has done its work well, and in a creditable manner.
Mr. COMSTOCK opposed the reference of the bill. About four out of five of the remaining sections of the bill are old matter. If this reference was desired, it should have been made earlier. Considering the length of the bill, if it is referred that would be the end of it, because of the length of time required to be given to the reconsideration ofsuch a large amount of matter.
The substitute was adopted by yeas, 20; nays, 19.
Mr. CHAPMAN opposed the amendment. There is a gross injustice in regard to fees and salaries, many officers being paid ten times more than they deserve, and some officers are being paid by way of perquisites far beyond what any persons but these officers themselves may know. He believed in paying liberal salaries. He did not believe the 8heriff or Clerk of this County should be paid as much as the five Judges on the Bench, or three of them for that matter, and looked forward to the time when men in office shall be paid according to that they deserve. Unless we incorporate a change of fees and salaries in this bill, he feared the necessary legislation in that direction would fail.
Mr. BELL favored the reference of the question, of fees and salaries in order that the Committee might arrange a bill in accordance with the recently adopted Constitutional Amendments.
On motion by Mr. LANGODON, the substitute was amended by directing the Committee to report a bill covering the subject of fees and salaries within five days.
The substitute as amended was adopted.
FEEBLE-MINDED ASYLUM.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR directed the roll to be called on the question pending at the adjournment last Saturday--being on concurrence in the report of the Joint Committee of Investigation, on the Soldiers' Orphans' Home, recommending the removal of the Superintendent, etc.
Mr. MENZIES raised the point of order that this matter can not be called up now.
Mr. BELL--The special order of the afternoon sessions, made so by special action of the some days ago is the consideration of the the work presented by the Revision Committee.
Mr. SPANN would like to, know why Senators were so anxious to avoid a vote on this matter.
Mr. BELL desired to get rid of the previous question, and would take advantage of Parliamentary law to do so. Then there are Senators, not confined to his side of the Chamber, who are convinced the action heretofore had on this subject was wrong. And further, he did not want to commit this outrage, and have it go on record, the same day the father is burying his son.
Mr. CHAPMAN thought the point of order well taken. The Senate surely does not want to break down its rule for the sake of carrying any question, no matter what its merits are. He referred to the rules by number and sustained the point of order.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR would have no trouble about this matter were it not for the previous question in operation when the vote was taken on Saturday, which showed no quorum.
Another vote would have been the order of business this morning, before the reading of the journal, had a quorum been present; but the matter was passed by, till the Chair thought it his duty to put the question. He was not anxious about the matter--if the Senate will let it go over he was willing.
Mr. SPANN moved that this matter be postponed till Wednesday afternoon.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR would not entertain any motion, but it may be passed over by consent till that time.
Mr. MENZIES entered a motion to reconsider the vote of Saturday, rejecting a motion to refer to a Special Committee the report of the Orphan Asylum Investigating Committee.
OFFICES AND OFFICERS.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the bill [S. 325].
Mr. CHAPMAN moved to strike out 1,600, and insert l,000 as the number of copies of the Senate and House and documentary journals to be printed. It is pretty useless printing any how.
The motion was agreed to.
On motion by Mr. GRAHAM, the clause was stricken out of Section 128, authorizing the State Auditor to employ counsel to prosecute suits instituted at his instance on behalf of the State.
Mr. MARVIN said Section 143 refers to an officer he had never heard of before--the Commissioner of the Michigan Road. He had lived on that road over thirty-six years, and had never yet heard of such an officer.
Mr. BUNDY (in his seat.) That officer resigned in 1837. [Laughter.]
Mr. MARVIN moved to strike that section the bill.
Mr. VAN VORHIS knew nothing of the duties of the Agent of the town of Indianapolis, referred to in the same section.
Mr. GRAHAM thought it better to retain the section; there may be some part of the old Michigan road still belonging to the Government.
Mr. MARVIN said the Michigan road in Marion and Boone Counties has been given to the Counties and the Counties have transferred it to the Gravel Road Companies. If it is thought best to keep it in, he would withdraw the motion to strike out this section.
Mr. VIEHE moved to strke out the clause in page: 63[View Page 63] Section 154 requiring monthly statements of the State Treasurer to be published.
The motion was agree to.
Mr. KRAMER moved to strike out the clause requiring a annual publication of the condition of the State Treasury in two Indianapolis papers, and provide in lieu for the publication of 500 copies in pamphlet form to be distributed in the several Counties.
Mr. VOYLES moved to strike out the section.
Mr. MARVIN--The Senator from Washington [Mr. Voyles] the other day offered an amendment to the tax bill, which was adopted, that the delinquent list should not be published. Now, the same Senator moves to strike out Section 155, so as to prevent the publication of a statement of the condition of the State Treasury once a month. He opposed it, believing in the fullest publication of all acts of public officials, that the people may be advised of what is being done by their public servants. He hoped the Senate would vote the motion down.
Mr. LOCKRIDGE suggested a portion of this section should not be stricken out--that portion which requires a report to the General Assembly. That is information necessary to the intelligent framing of revenue, appropriation and other bills.
The motion to strike out was rejected.
The amendment was also rejected.
Mr. CHAPMAN moved to amend so this monthly statement shall be printed in but one paper.
Mr. BUNDY offered a substitute, striking out all relating to printing.
Mr. MARVIN was not here the advocate of any newspaper, but favored publishing the acts of all public servants, so the people may know what they are doing. These statements should be published in a paper of general circulation of each of the two political parties in the city of Indianapolis. It is not paying to these newspapers a subsidy, but it is paying a duty we owe to the people to inform them of the acts of their public servants. What do we have published the acts of the general Legislature for, if we don't want the people to know what we are doing here? He opposed the amendments, and hoped the Senate would not pass them.
Mr. GARRIGUS thought the papers would publish such matters as items of news. Why publish in two papers in this city, and not in papers in other parts of the State?
Mr. BUNDY saw no good to result from the publication of these statements in two papers in this city. The people of the State generally do not see these papers, and it is a useless expense.
The substitute was rejected.
Mr. SHAFFER moved to amend the amendment so that the publication shall be made in some newspaper of general circulation in each County in the State.
Mr. SPANN opposed the amendment on the ground of economy, if no other. It would amount to the sum of $3,000, and it is unnecessary and not what ought to be done.
The amendment to the amendment was rejected by--yeas, 1; nays, 35.
The amendment was rejected by-yeas, 7; nays, 28.
Mr. BENZ explained his negative vote when his name was called, by saying: "As I am not able to take two newspapers, as I am a Democrat, I take the Sentinel, and the State being Republican these statements will be printed in the Journal. I Note 'no.'"
So the amendment was rejected.
Mr. CHAPMAN moved to amend by striking out the words "at Indianapolis," and inserting, in lieu thereof, the words, "of opposite political parties. He said: "We are proposing to vote a subsidy to our own party organs. There is no disguising that fact. There is no use in assuming that by this clause we want to disseminate knowledge. All we want to do is to contribute to the support of our party organ. This amendment will bring the thing down squarely and strip off the thin disguise. There is no attempt to assume any false colors--no putting on of a mask, or any clothing that don't belong to us. All we want to do is to attempt to make the public do that which the political parties failed to do--to support their respective party organs." In order to give Senators an opportunity to vote for what they are in favor of, and what he is against, he offered this amendment.
Then the Senate adjourned till to-morrow.
