ASSESSMENT FOR TAXATION.
The reading by sections of the bill [H. R. 204], concerning taxation, pending at the time of adjournment on yesterday was resumed.
Mr. RYAN moved to amend Section 169 as follows: The County Auditors of the several Counties of this State shall have power, and it is hereby made their duty to cause by open notice in writing, all agents, State and County, of Trust Loan, Insurance and other Companies organizations, partnerships and persons loaning money in this State, to report to him immediately after the 1st of April in each year, in writing, under oath, the amount of amounts of money held by any and all persons in this State by loans from the said principals, where the same is held, and the period of loan.
Mr. CARTER thought if this amendment prevailed every alien person having money loaned in this State would be taxed about 2 per cent. on the money in the State and 2 per cent. where they lived, making 4 per cent. In case they receive 6 per cent, interest they will have 2 per cent. left on their money, which is entirely too little. He thought it wrong for the House to legislate against capital; that if it were not for the corporations giving employment to the poor people and workingmen, they would be starving for the want of daily subsistence. He thought it time that the House should stop in this matter, and hoped the amendment would not prevail.
By Mr. FALL: Thousands of dollars are brought to this State, loaned out without any tax upon them at all. They avoid the asssessment of tai in other States where they live, and under existing laws they avoid it here.
Mr. RYAN--The purpose of this amendment is to enable the proper officers of this State to tax such capital as is not otherwise taxed. Any man who has done business in connection with a public office knows that at least one-fourth of the capital in this State escapes taxation. Why? Because it is covered up by, these mortgages--Loan Companies--in such a way that the money is taxed at home where the stockholders reside, and not taxed here. The officers have no means of arriving at the truth of their statements. The result is that the bulk of the capital escapes taxation. This provision does not require a person to pay taxes twice, but merely reaches such capital as has not been otherwise taxed. There is no reason why this money should not be taxed upon the same principle that you tax the land upon which the mortgage is made. There is no harm in this amendment anywhere, and it may do good. This amendment is in the interest of the people and not against the legitimate interests of capital. I hope it will become a part of this law.
Mr. KENNER said the only thing he could see in the gentleman from Delaware (Mr. Ryan's) amendment was that the officers would be enabled to know whether these mortgages were taxed or not. He hoped the amendment would not prevail, as it sought to tax the property of other States, and moved to lay the amendment on the table.
The motion was rejected.
Mr. FLOYD said these corporations are protected by the laws of the State. They come among us for gain and for that reason they ought to be taxed.
Mr. HUSTON thought the tax should be paid where the evidence of the indebtedness is made and hoped the amendment would not prevail as it is pernicious and would have a tendency to lessen the supply of capital.
Mr. RYAN thought the amendment was either not understood or misinterpreted by the gentlemen attacking it. It is not the purpose of the amendment to tax capital in Indiana that is already taxed in Ohio or elsewhere. The amendment contemplates no such thing, but simply provides and imposes a method whereby the Auditors of this State may cause such an investigation to be made as to enable them to determine whether or not there is any money invested in their Counties and imposes no other liabilty. There is no desire to load capital beyond what it should bear, and it should bear its equal propotion of taxation.
Mr. MOODY--I hope this Section proposed by the gentleman from Delaware (Mr. Ryan) will not meet the approval of this House. I am surprised to find gentlemen who voted with me, and, by their manly courage, their eloquence, and devotion to justice, favored a reduction of the present rate of interest in this State, favoring a law that seeks to impose a tax upon the very money we do, and should invite to come and remain among us in order to make possible a low rate of interest. Honorable gentlemen on this floor say that capital needs no protection, and that they believe in protecting the laboring man. So do I, Mr. Speaker; but do I do so by following the blind zeal of a man or a class of men who can offer nothing better in support of proposed legislation than abuse of men and corporations who simply seek an investment of their capital in our State. I believe, rather, Mr. Speaker, in appealing to the common sense of men, and asking them to apply the same test to this question they do to all others. If I understand the gentleman from Delaware, this section proposed by him as an amendment to the law seeks to impose a tax on all money loaned by any person, partnership, corporation, association or organization, resident of any foreign State and loaned in this State. This tax, if imposed, can affect but two classes of men, the lender and the borrower, and the higher the tax the higher the rate of interest necessarilly must be. It seems to me that this question is easy of solution, and may be comprehended by any one. If you tax the notes and mortgages of a man who lives in the State of Ohio and has loaned his money to a citizen of this State, you say directly to the borrower, and not to the lender: "You must pay the tax thus imposed upon my money by the Legislature of your State." I believe Mr. Speaker, that this section is not in the interest of any man and will serve no good end, and I am therefore opposed to the amendment.
page: 203[View Page 203]Mr. GIBSON favored the adoption of the amendment because he thought it right that capitalists of this country ought to stand on the same footing as capitalist of other States.
Mr. WRIGHT: I can not see that the amendment can do any harm. Section 19 specifically provides that if a person assessed can make it appear to the Assessor that he is held for tax in another State, County, Township or city, he shall not be again assessed for the same year. The amendment simply authorizes the County Auditor to call in and examine under oath, persons loaning money in this State. I do not believe, sir, that any member upon this floor has any doubt bu that thousands of dollars are loaned in this State not paying a dollar of tax in this or any other State. You talk about the array of capital against labor. Let me tell you, there is no danger of a conflict between capital and labor in this country, so long as capital restrains itself within proper bounds. I tell you that the American laborer is the most patient soul on this earth, and will put up with his position until it becomes unbearable. The American laborer is satisfied capital is an aggressive thing that will impose upon the rights of the people. I hope the gentleman's amendment will pass. I have no fear as to the condition of capital. Capital upon this globe has always had the best of it. The maxim of every American statesman in a Republic like ours is: "Take care of those who are least able to take care of themselves." [Applause.]
Mr. MEREDITH said, after consideration of the bill, he thought if the interest of the community were properly considered that the bill as it now stands is in the best shape for getting the entire amount of tax that can be got from the property of the State, justly due, and, therefore, was opposed to any amendments offered.
Mr. LEE thought every man in Indiana ought to pay his taxes. This bill making provision for that only, he could not see why any member should oppose this amendment.
Mr. TETER--It appears to me that this amendment is wrong in theory, false in logic, and bad in the consequences. For reasons, I will simply refer to the gentlemen who have already spoken. I am opposed to the amendment.
The amendment was adopted.
Mr. RIDPATH, (Mr. ----in the Chair), moved to amend the bill by striking out Item 22, Section 77, being the words "Every annuity and royalty, and description and value." He gave as the reason for so doing that the item would be inoperative after the adoption of the amendment as made by him on yesterday.
Mr. MILES was opposed to striking out this clause, as there many persons who had patents and copy rights, and owners of coal mines, who are receiving royalty for the whole mine, and there should be some way of reaching them.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. RIDPATH moved to strike out item 30, being the words "number of melodeons and organs and value."
It was agreed to.
Mr. RIDPATH moved to amend by inserting the words "and other musical instruments" after the words "piano fortes," in item 29 of the schedule.
It was adopted.
Then the House took a recess until 2 p. m.
