THE BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS.
VOLUME SEVENTEEN.
INDIANA LEGISLATURE.
IN SENATE.
THURSDAY, Jan. 30, 1879-- 10 a. m.After prayer by Rev. Mr. Pyle, of the Third Street, M. E. church--
The bill, [S. 30--Mr. Weir's] authorizing guardians to settle the estate of deceased wards was read The third time, and finally passed the Senate by--46 yeas, nays 1.
The bill. [S. 58--Mr. Harris '] requiring able bodied prisoners in jails to be put to work by county commissioners, was read the third time and passed by--yeas 48, nays 0.
The bill, [S. 71--Mr. Leeper's] authorizing justices to require additional replevin bail where the same is insufficient, was read the third time and passed by yeas 44, nays 0.
The bill, [S. lOl--Mr.Sarnighausen's]to repeal the act of March 6, 1865, authorizing the formation of water works companies in cities, was read the third time and passed by--yeas 46, nays 4.
The bill, [S. 125--Mr. Foster's] for the conviction of persons in possession of property feloniously brought into the state in the same manner as n the felony were committed in the state--was read the third time and passed--yeas. 49; nays 6.
The bill, [S. 138--Mr. Reeve's] authorizing the combining and the loaning of fractional sums belonging to the school funds, and requiring full distribution of all funds required to be on hand by law, was read the third time, and passed by yeas, 41; nays, 6.
The bill [S. 138--Mr. Ragan's] for appointment of inspector of elections from the party in the majority in the last election previous for secretary of state in the precinct, was read the third time and failed to pass--yeas 21, nays 27.
The bill [S. 192-Mr. Grubbs'] adding to section 468 of the general practice act of June 18, 1852, a provision that the plaintiff or his agent shah be notified by mail or otherwise of the time and place of the sale of personal property on execution.
Mr. GRUBBS explained that the bill was intended to render more certain the sales of property on execution.
Mr. MENZIE couldn't see why the plaintiff should stand on more favored ground than the defendant. The former is supposed to take due notice of the time and clay of sale because he takes the property of the defendant by force. This bill proposes an unnecessary change and discriminates in favor of the party who has brought to his aid the machinery of the law.
Mr. REEVE referred to the well known fact that under an execution, if it runs 180 days and contemplates more than one appraisement of property, the time of action is uncertain and entirely optional with the officer; and it looks unreasonable to require they party plaintiff to dance attendance of the officer in order to ascertain when the property will be sold, in order that he may be present and bid off the property or let it go without action on his part. This bill is an eminently proper one--it can do nobody any harm and would be beneficial to all concerned. There could be no objection to the officer notifying both parties. The presumption is, the property being advertised in the neighborhood where it was seized would induce the defendant to look after it, while the plaintiff may reside at a long distance and know nothing about it.
Mr. BRISCOE: The bill proposes to make extra costs for the defendant, if the plaintiff should live at a long distance, or even be a non resident, if his attorneys are faithful to their trust they will notify him of everything that is necessary.
Mr. COMSTOCK: The objection that the bill makes an unfair discrimination in proposing to give notice to the plaintiff and not to the defendant also, while making additional costs for the defendant, is sufficiently answered by the senator fro Marshall [Mr. Reeve] in this, that the plaintiff may not be resident of the county, and it can't possibly do any harm. The attorney for the plaintiff amy be absent from the county. The plaintiff may be a non-resident, and this bill would give him an opportunity to make the amount of his claim, and to do no harm to the defendant. He saw no reason why the bill should not pass.
Mr. VIEHE also thought the bill should pass. It has been said that it is the duty of the plaintiff's attorney to know all the proceedings of the sheriff. As a matter of fact that is page: 87[View Page 87] utterly impossible. It is not the attorney's duty to watch the sheriff and find out when the sale is to be. The attorney can do his duty without watching for the sale day. The plaintiff and the defendant are both benefitted by this bill; It is for the benefit of the debtor as well for the benefit of the creditor, and should be passed.
Mr. GRUBBS regarded this bill as being in the interest of economy. There are innumberable offers of personal property in this State where there are no sales, thus incurring costs upon defendants because of the fact that the plaintiff are not advised where the sales are to be. Senators say, "Why not advise both? Simply because it is not necessary: the defendant is notified that has property is taken-- he knows that fact; and in addition the statute provides that notice shall be given in the township in which the property is taken, and in which the sale is to be made.
The bill finally passed the Senate by yeas 34, nays 16.
Mr. STREIGHT offered the knowing:
Resolved by the senate, the House of Representatives concurring therein. That, with a view of attracting immigration from abroad, the state geologist is hereby instructed to have prepared, in a brief and condensed a form as practicable, a pamphlet setting for the resources and advantages of Indiana; that the same be accompanied by a small map of the State showing its civil divisions, and by a certificate of the governor, and by a copy of his resolution, and that, 100,000 copies thereof be printed in English and in the same number in German, for distribution in this and other counties, under the direction of the state geologist.
It was rejected by yeas 151, nays 31.
NEW PROPOSITIONS.
Bills for acts were introduced, read the first time and severally referred to appropriate committees as follows:
By Mr. DICE, [S. 295] to regulate the working and ventilation of coal mines and authorizing liens thereon for work or labor performed therein, which shall have priority of all but liens for taxes.
By Mr. POINDEXTER, [S. 296] fixing the time on holding circuit courts in the fourth judicial circuit.
By Mr. HEFRON, [S. 297] to abolish the office of State geologist, and transferring all appartus, etc., to the custody of State board of agriculture.
By Mr. CADWALLADER, [S. 298] providing for the recording of mortgages, declaring them to be a lien in priority of sale on execution or delivery and declaring deeds of real estate to be prior liens over mortgages in certain cases--where purchaser is ignorant of existing mortgages.
By Mr. STREIGHT, [S. 299] to prohibit any public officer entitled to mileage from using railroad passes while travelling on official business.
Messrs. Sarnighansen, Langdon, Reeve, Poindexter and Briscoe presented petitions, which were referred to appropriate committees without reading.
Then came the recess till 2 o'clock p. m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR announced the special order being the consideration of the bill S. 277, and the subject of interest generally.
On motion by Mr. HARRIS the Senate resolved itself into a committee of the whole--Mr. Woollen in the chair--for the consideration of the interest questions.
Mr. MENZIES moved to strike out of the first section the words "when the parties do not agree," and also the words "unless the same be in writing, signed by the party to be charged thereby, and in such case it shall not be lawful to contract for more than eight per cent, per annum.
Mr. REEVE: That destroys the purpose of the bill, and leaves the rate absolutely at six per cent. Thousands of people have been compelled to mortgage everything they have: capital is gradually being invested in business ventures now, and unless people are allowed to renew their obligations at the original rate of interest, they will go into absolute beggary; the effect, would be appalling; Indiana would sink to the very lowest position in the scale of States. It is just such legislation as this that now makes war between labor and capital. This amendment amounts to this: A body of 50 men say to 2,000,000 of people, "You. shall not exercise your own judgment in the borrowing of money." The same principle would compel a man to have but a six inch leg to his boot. If you adopt such a system the tune will come when you will reap the terrible effects of proceeding: in direct violation of the natural laws that govern finance. Every time you bring down the rate too low, you make but a bid for the production or crime, for the people will have money when they must have it , even though it be obtained by circumventing interest acts. Once disregarding the law is but the entering: wedge that will eventually make it necessary to call in the policeman and the soldier. He appealed to senators to vote down the proposed amendment. Do not say to the people they shall not exercise their discretion in the matter of borrowing money.
Mr. HART. The people are demanding a reduction in the legal rate of interest. All the political parties are on record in favor of cutting down; and why should we hesitate? The laboring men, who sustain this Government, are anxious for it: we have get to throw safeguards around the poorer class of people, and the sooner we do it the better.
Mr. HEFRON did not think very great calamities would before the people if the legal rate of interest be fixed at 6 percent. The great mass of the people of Indiana demand a measure of this kind. No legitimate business can be carried on profitably in this State and pay interest at 10 per cent. The argument that the people will violate a law reducing the rate to 6 percent, is not argument against passing a law demanded by the times; if it were, jails had better be closed and statute books burned.
Mr. WOODS--The demands of capital are from ten to twenty per cent. There is no such a thing as satisfying the demands of capital. But go among business men and they will say they can not afford to pay more than six per cent. Here on one side is the great producing interest and on the other side stands capital. Now who can hesitate as between the two? Business is depressed because money has found an avenue that yields greater revenue--it has gone into the loan channels where it can earn ten per cent. Six per cent, now is worth as much as twelve per cent, five years ago , and that being the case why should capital complain of a six per cent law.
Mr. TRUSLER could not understand why we should legislate upon two rates of interest. It is contended the higher rate will benefit the poorer class, but who are crying out for the higher rate? It is the capitalist. Capital is educated, capital has been to school and knows how to compute interest; yes, and compound it, too. In other countries it has ground labor in the dust; but thank God it can't do it in this country. No great object can be accomplished without uniting capital and labor, then page: 88[View Page 88] why should they be kept apart by legislation. The laboring men is willing to take his chances at the lower rate of interest and the speaker favored the adoption of the pending amendment.
Mr. OLDS finds 12 of the States have no limit as to contracts for rates of interest, and 17 allow 12 per cent, to 20. This proposition for putting down the rate to 6 per cent, would be ruinous. Parties now holding mortgages on real property in this State would foreclose and take the realty. There are but few clamoring for the reduction, and they mostly men who have broken themselves up. A half dozen of them will make more noise about it then 500 good and substantial citizens. It is better tat every one should make such contracts as they please. For the present he should favor the bill as it came from the hands of the committee.
Mr. STREIGHT asked by what manner of means the advocates of this measure can borrow money at 6 per cent. Does not this amendment mean that no one having less credit than the government itself shall borrow money? Why should you deny a man the right to borrow money at any rate he may see fit, any more than you would deny him the right to buy dinner at any price he may choose to pay? Years ago when there was a 6 per cent law in this State money was universally loaned at a greater rate all over the State. If senators think they can bring down the rate of interest to 6 per cent, by simply enacting a law, why not make it 4 or 3 per cent.? The man who has money to loan will but laugh at such laws. No class of men have sunk larger per cent of capital in the last five years than bankers. The result of low interest laws have never benefitted the man of poor means. The man who loans money can not afford to loan as cheaply to the poorer classes as he can to those in better circumstances. Money will bring what it is worth, just as wheat and corn and pork does. He would support this bill for the reason that money has got down to be worth just about that much. This amendment means that if your neighbor can not borrow money at 6 per cent, he shall not borrow at all. Many States have abandoned the idea of legislating on the subject of interest, and he hoped this State would come to that before many years.
Mr. BRISCOE: This question should be ably and carefully considered, The eyes of the people of this State, as well as the sharks and Shylocks of New York, are turned to this Legislature at this time. The bill proposes only a difference of two per cent. from the present law. Nine out of ten uncollected notes in this State bear on their face ten per cent., and in a short time after the enactment of such a bill as this, the same proportion would show eight percent. If this bill will drive capital out of the State, let it go. He favored the fixing of a rate of Interest at six per cent.
Mr. REEVE: The only question is, Shall this Legislature restrict the people in the exercise of their discretion to the making of contracts for money at the rate of eight per cent.?
The amendment [Mr. MENZIES] was agreed to, upon a division--affirmative 26, negative 20.
On motion by Mr. MENZIES, the committee rose, reported progress, and asked leave to sit again to-morrow afternoon at 2 o'clock.
Mr. BURRELL moved to concur in the report, pending which, the Senate adjourned.
