THE
BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS.
FOURTEENTH VOLUME.
INDIANA LEGISLATURE.
The State Printing.---Debate in Continuation.
IN SENATE.
TUESDAY, February 25, 1873.[CONTINUED FROM PAGE 201 BOTTOM OF FIRST COLUMN.]
On motion by Mr. DWIGGINS, Mr. Beardsley's bill [S. 245] - being the special order for this hour - To provide for letting the State printing to the lowest bidder and constitute the Governor, Secretary and Auditor of State a commission for that purpose the special order for 10:30, was taken up and read the second time, together with the amendments reccommended by the committee.
Mr. BROWN opposed the passage of the bill. He said that in the first place, it provides for the appointment of a Superintendant of Public Printing at a salary of two thousand dollars per annum, who will not be employed more than forty days in the year. Second, it may result in the State printing being done in Cincinnati or Chicago. He thought it would be a sad commentary on the State, a State which boasts of its culture, of its improvement, of its learning, of its intelligance, its sciences, and its arts, if it has to send out to the young State of Illinois to get its public printing done. Next, he objected to the clause which provides for the purchase of the paper by the State. That is where all the trouble has come in, because some Public Printer has gone in with certain paper establishments and has had them fix the price of paper and had then divided the profit, perhaps, between the purchaser and the seller. This bill provides no remedy for that great evil. For these reasons among others he didn't like the bill in its present shape. He didn't think it safe for the Senate to act upon it, and he therefore moved to refer the bill and amendments to the Committee on Judiciary.
Mr. SLATER said the bill had been carefully considered by the Committee on Public Printing and was carefully guarded in all its provisions. It has received the unanimous support of that committee. They have had it examined by practical printers: and it was guarded as well as any bill can possibly be. He hoped the motion would prevail.
Mr. SLEETH said that the number of amendmends showed that the committee had labored hard and had considered it carefully. The amendments are very numerous, and he was opposed to passing a bill in this shape until it had gone to a committee and the amendments had been inserted in the proper places. This bill has been twice before the committee. The firpt time a certain set of amendments were reported. It was afterwards with those amendments recommitted with instructions to report a bill of this character. The Committee overhauled the bill again and with this report submitted an additonal set of amendments; and they are very numerous. I must confess that I am rather suspicious about passing a bill in this shape. lam afraid we might make some slips unless the bill be returned again to the page: 539[View Page 539] BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS.539committee so that the amendments may be placed in the appropriate places. I should not like to see any of their labors lost.
Mr. GLESSNER, I am opposed to recommitting the bill for the simple reason that it is growing so late in the session. It is an important matter, and this proposition has been before the committee on Printing ever since the office of State Printer was abolished. I am informed by members of the committee that they have given it every attention that they have used every facility and taken advantage of every intelligent counsel that could be reached by the committee. These motions for delay all come from the enemies of the bill. To commit this bill is a step in the direction of murdering it and leaving us at the end of the session without any law whatever on the subject. My judgment is that the committee have done the very best that could be done under the instructions of the Senate, this committee went to work with a view of prefecting the bill; and I can see no reason at this late day of the session for recommitting the bill, and I believe it would be perilling its existence. I do not say that is the intention of gentlemen but it has that tendency. If this committee were to give one-tenth part of the attention to this bill that has been given it by the Committee on Printing there can be no report on it during this session of the Senate. Talk about it at this late day of the session referring this printing bill to another committee, when the Committee on Printing, ever since the beginning of the special session - seventy days ago, if not more than that have had this subject under consideration and now for the first time we are considering the report made by that Committee after this long consideration and careful preparation.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Let the bill be engrossed and then we can learn what is in it. If any Senator can understand from the reading of the reports what there is in the bill, he is better able to comprehend it than I am, I move to lay the motion to refer on the table.
This motion was agreed to by yeas 41, nays 5, as follows: -
YEAS - Messrs. Armstrong, Beardsley, Beeson, Bird, Boone, Bowman, Banyan, Carnahan, Cave, Chapman, Collett, Daggy, Daugherty, Dittemore, Dwiggins, Fuller, Francisco, Friedley of Scott, Glessner, Gooding, Gregg, Hall, Harney, Haworth, Hough, Howard, Hubbard, Miller, Neff, O'Brien, Oliver, Rhodes, Ringo, Rosebrough, Sarnighausen, Scott, Slater, Stroud, Taylor, Wadge and Williams - 41.
NAYS - Messrs. Brown, Orr, Sleeth Steele and Thompson - 5.
Pending the roll call -
Mr. STEELE, in explanation of his vote, when his name was called, said: I think it much better to refer this bill to some Committee to have it arranged in proper shape that we may know what we are engrossing. It seems to me as extraordinary to engross a bill without Senators knowing anything about the bill. There are one hundred and one amendments almost and not a Senator on the floor knows where these amendments come in until such time as the bill is engrossed. I think we ought either to have this bill printed so that we can understand it, or else refer it to some Committee that would present the bill so that it can be read as the Committee intended. I vote "no."
When the roll call was completed -
The vote was announced as above recorded.
So the motion to refer the bill to the Judiciary Committee was laid on the table.
On motion of Mr. GREGG, the bill was ordered engrossed for the third reading.
Mr. BROWN moved that two hundred copies of the bill be ordered printed in the cheapest possible form.
Mr. HOUGH moved to lay the motion on the table.
This motion was agreed to by yeas 28. nays 18 - as follows:
YEAS - Messrs. Armstrong, Beardsley, Beeson, Bird, Boone, Bowman, Carnahan, Cave, Chapman, Daggy, Daugherty, Dittemore, Fuller, Francisco, Glessner, Gregg, Hall, Harney, Hough, Ringo, Rosebrough, Sarnighansen, Scott, Slater, Stroud, Taylor, Williams and Wintertbotham. - 28.
NAYS - Messrs. Brown, Bunyan, Collett, Dwiggins, Friedley of Scott, Gooding, Haworth, Howard, Hubbard, Miller, Neff, Oliver, Orr, Rhodes, Sleeth, Steele Thompson and Wadge - 25.
Pending the roll call -
Mr. BROWN, in explanation of his vote, when his name was called said: This bill was thrown on the Senate and not a single Senator could say that he knew anything about it. It may be, if the bill passed, that the State would suffer more inconvenience and loss than under the old law. He made the motion in order that the Senate might be properly informed in regard to its provisions, in order that Senators may vote intelligently, in order that they may know whether it is a bill for weal and not for woe.
Mr. DWIGGINS, when his name was called, in explanation of his vote, said: We ought to print this bill, and after it is printed we can consult with printers from our districts and elsewhere and in that way may save hundreds of thousands of dollars. The cost of printing amounts to nothing. I vote "no."
Mr. SLEETH, in explanation of his vote, when his name was called, said: This was a most important matter. There had probably been more stealing, or, perhaps as he ought to express it in the Senate, more "leakage" in this department of the State page: 540[View Page 540] government than any other. He believed that he, as a member of the Printing Committee, understood this bill, but he thought the other Senators ought to have an opportunity to understand it also. As a member of that committee I am not disposed to legislate for this Senate, and I am not disposed to permit other committees to legislate for me. I desire to know what is in every bill before I vote for it, and I desire every member of the Senate to know what is in the bill and be responsible to his constituents; and therefore, in order that every Senator may know the provisions of this bill and vote understandingly upon it, I am in favor of printing the bill. It is a long and complicated bill and a man cannot sit down and read it and in one hour understand its provisions. I vote "no."
Mr. STEELE, when his name was called, in explanation of his vote, said: I hope this bill will be printed. I do not know the provisions of the bill. There are so many amendments I think they ought to be submitted to the Senate so that members can look at them. If the bill was printed and laid on our tables we could take it home in the evening, read it carefully, correct any errors we may see, and be able to explain them to the Senate when we assemble again. In addition to that the bill can be printed by to-morrow eveningit can be ready by to-morrow evening - and I think we should have it on our table before we vote on it. No doubt the committee intend every thing for the best, but at the same time I would rather vote on my own judgment than on the judgment of any committee. I do hope the Senate will allow this bill to be printed, at least. I vote "no."
Mr. THOMPSON, in explanation of his vote, when his name was called, said: There never has been a bill presented in this Senate of more importance. I apprehend that not one man in ten who votes against the referring or printing of this bill understands one-tenths of the amendments proposed to it. The only point in the bill that inspires confidence seems to be the fact that it provides for a Superintendent. They put a Superintendent over the public printing office at Washington; and every Senator knows the result of that move. A Superintendent can be as dishonest as a public printer. I vote "no."
When the roll call was completed -
The vote was announced as above recorded.
So the motion to print the bill [S. 245] to provide for letting the public printing to the lowest bidder, was rejected by the Senate.
