[Morning Session].
The Senate met pursuant to adjournment, President Friedley in the chair. The reading of the journal was dispensed with.
INSANE ASYLUMS.
Mr. CHAPMAN moved that the House concurrent resolution instructing the Committee on Benevolent Institutions to prepare plans for a building for the insane and divide the State into three districts, be taken up.
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. O'BRIEN was opposed to the division of the State into three insane districts, and to this scattering of State institutions. It was unnecessary and expensive.
Mr. DAGGY, too, was in favor of one central institution large enough to accommodate all the insane in the State, even if it costs five hundred thousand dollars. One objection urged against it is that it will make it inconvenient for their friends to visit them. This will be an advantage to them. The farther an insane man is removed from his friends, the better for him. It is the universal testimony that when the friends of insane persons visit them it always makes them in restless and irritable, and retards their cure.
Mr. OLIVER said Mr. Daggy's remarks were strictly correct. Insane men, many of them, are remarkably acute. Even a paragraph in the newspapers concerning the erection of a building for them will excite them to such a degree that they will not recover for six weeks, and the visit of their friends do them far more harm than good. More than that, the expense of three separate institutions will be much greater than that of one. He hoped that Senators would give this matter serious consideration, for it is a collossal question;a big question; one of the very greatest interest. Such is our system of Railroads that out of the ninety-three counties in the State of Indiana, persons residing in eighty-four or eighty three of them can reach Indianapolis and return home the same day. So the argument against patients being too far away from their Mends is no argument against the location of a new asylum at the Capital of the State.
Mr. CHAPMAN said: My purpose in calling up the resolution was not to provoke discussion. It was simply to get something before the Senate and House on this subject. The necessity of providing a suitable place for the care of the insane is a very pressing one, but after the resolution is reported from the committee it will be time enough for Senators to discuss the question. This is not the time for discussion. Perhaps gentlemen have not thought on this subject. I am in favor of providing ample accommodations for every insane person in the State of Indiana, and I don't care so much where the institution is located. It is an outrage upon our State to have our insane kept in the poor houses. I page: 410[View Page 410] have been almost ready to say that I never would vote a single dollar out of the Treasury for any purpose whatever until the insane are properly provided for. Now it is nearly the middle of the session and yet nothing has been done in this matter.
Mr. GLESSNER. I understand this is a concurrent resolution from the House of Representatives. The proposition is to make appropriations for Insane Asylums, and we are called upon to determine the question whether we will construct and establish such institutions In different parts of the State. It occurs to me now is the time to determine this question. However I think it not best to take up much time in discussing it, but let the resolution go to the committee on Benevolent Institutions and let them examine and report what they think best under the present circumstances. I think it best to have the buildings erected adjoining the institution already built, and I am willing to vote any appropriation the committee may think right and proper. The want of proper accommodations for the insane of the State is a thing that has been complained of more than any other. There has been a greater outrage committed in Indiana upon the incurable insane than by any other State in the Union. I find we are behind most of the States in this matter. Men of any experience know that the insane have died in little cells in our county poor houses for want of the attention of persons who know how to take care of them. I have always been ready and willing to vote the largest appropriations for this unfortunate class, and I think the subject ought to be taken up and perfected at an early day.
Mr. DWIGGINS. I move to amend the motion so as to refer the resolution to the committee named to inquire and report upon the best place for locating the additional building or buildings and the amount of appropriation necessary. If the committee are to procure proper plans and determine upon the best and cheapest mode of building, and select the places for them, they cannot do all that this session. It occurs to me that all we can do is to ascertain where we will put these buildings, make the appropriations and appoint a commission to adopt plans and let the contract. If we require the committee to present plans and specifications when they have only a few days to do it in, it will be a chance if we get what we want.
Mr. ORR. I can see no propriety in making three seperate places for these institutions. Let us appropriate as much as is necessary to provide accommodations for this unfortunate class and let the buildings be erected in this city.
Mr. HOUGH. I move to amend the amendment so as to instruct the committee to inquire and report as to the necessity for an extension of the building on the present site. The establishment of 3 seperate institutions will be attended with unnecessary expense. We see the folly of dividing our educational institutions. All are asking for enormous appropriations. One half of the money they ask for, if expended in one locality, would make an institution of which we would all feel proud, but squandered in different directions, we may appropriate all the money they ask and still our institutions will be of an inferior grade compared with younger States than ours. And it will be so with our benevolent institutions if they are divided. It will not be long if hospitals are established in different localities before we will have more offices connected with our State institutions than there are members of the Senate. They will have to be elected biennially and receive salaries that will amount to as much as the legislation of State costs. I thik this idea of dividing up these institutions savors of foolishness.
Mr. THOMPSON, (interposing). There has been an expression from various portions of the State in favor of seperate institutions in different localities which caused the Governor to mention the subject in his message.
Mr. HOUGH. It seems to me that inasmuch as we have one hundred and sixty acres of land where the institution is already located that the additional buildings can be located there as well and better than if they were one hundred miles apart. What I am talking about is the economy in keeping the institution where it now is and putting up additional buildings on the ground we now already own, so that one corps of ofticern may run the whole institution. If divided and two other buildings erected in different localities, we will have to have three seperate sets of officers. I hope the amendment I proposed will be adopted. Let the committee be confined to the inquiry whether additional buildings are necessary on the present site of the hospital for the Insane.
Mr. HALL. I think it would be good policy if all our educational institutions were located at one point. Confine them to one spot and it would be economy to the State, but this rule don't apply to the particular item of expenditure we are now considering. We are obliged to take the opinion of medical men on this subject and I believe their judgment is almost unanimous against having too large a number of insane persons in one locality. They assure us that there should not be over six hundred in any one locality.
Mr. DWIGGINS. I will now send up my amendment.
It was read by the Secretary as follows: page: 411[View Page 411] "Strikeout all after the word 'two' in line two, page two, and insert the following: inquire and report the amount that should be appropriated to build additional buildings lor the insane and also report where such additional buildings should be erected and all matters pertaining thereto and report by bill or otherwise.'"
Mr. O'BRIEN. I offer the following as a substitute for the resolution and the amendments:
Resolved, That the committee on Benevolent Institutions be and are hereby instructed to inquire into the propriety of enlarging the present building for the accommodation of the insane of the State, or for the building of new buildings on the ground now owned by the State, and report plans and specifications for such buildings.
Mr. HALL. I believe I would favor the substitute but for one single matter and that is time. I think this a case where we ought to take some steps immediately towards providing additional accommodations for our insane. We must take some care of these fifteen hundred unfortunates now scattered over the State.
Mr. GOODING. Gentlemen say that they have already ground enough and that it would be expensive to build elsewhere. I think donations of ground could be had in the northern and southern portions of the State for this purpose. I venture to say Vanderburgh county will give ground for an asylum to be established there.
Mr. DWIGGINS, (interposing). Jasper county will give a section.
Mr. GOODING, (resuming.) We have it from physicians of character that it is a very grave question whether these persons can be better benefited by being kept seperate than together. It would seem that the gentleman offering amendments don't wish the committee to have an opportunity to consider this grave question. He wants to instruct the committee to have this institution located at Indianapolis. I say let us leave this question of location to the committee and with the opinion of medical men thereon,we may go into a discussion of its merits. I don't think it right in the face of the suggestion of the gentleman from Floyd [Mr. Hall] that the medical fraternity are of the opinion that it is better for the patients to be seperated - I don't think it right for us to say that we will instruct the committee to pay no attention to that suggestion. I think that we had better leave the committee free to confer with medical men and come back here with information, make a recommendation to the Senate and then we can discuss the question. We are prematurely tieing up the hands of the committee. If those persons can be treated better seperately than together, I want to know what Senator will insist on forcing them together upon the plea of economy. If they can be better carred for seperate than together, I want to know what Senator will stand upon this floor, and upon the plea of economy have them penned together in one place.
Mr. STEELE. The resolution should go no farther than to inquire if such buildings should be built. As far as the specifications are concerned, would it not be much better, instead of loading them down with that, to require them to report simply a finding whether any such buildings are required at all? We should first determine what we want. Then time should be given, and we have only about a month to work in. The specifications can be more properly made after we determine where we will have the buildings. It would be burdening the committee with a matter they should not be burdened with now. I am in favor of making such appropriations as are absolutely necessary and would desire the committee to make a report of what expenditures are necessary in their opinion. And I think that a report should be make at a very early day.
Mr. SCOTT. I understand the proposition would bring us to a test vote upon the two plans, either to put the buildings here or somewhere else. If we adopt the substitute, here is the place; if we vote it down, then we are willing to put it some where else.
Mr. GOODING. I don't think that necessarily follows.
Mr. SCOTT. I call for the previous question. I think the Senate is ready to vote upon it.
This demand for the previous question was seconded by the Senate and the substitute [Mr. O'Brien's] was rejected byyeas 18, nays 20, - see page 109.
