THE
BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS.
THIRTEENTH VOLUME.
INDIANA LEGISLATURE.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
THURSDAY, December 12, 1872.The House was called to order at nine o'clock by the Speaker, and prayer was offered by Mr. Clark, a representative from Hamilton county.
On motion of Mr. Lenfesty, the reading of the journal of yesterday was dispensed with.
THE ASSESSMENT LAWS.
Mr. KIMBALL, from the Committee on Ways and Means, reported back the bill [H. R. 163] to provide for a uniform assessment of property and for the collection and return of taxes thereon, with amendments. First, add to section 62: "Provided that shares of the State Bank and of the National Banks shall not be listed for taxation for municipal purposes till the expiration of the charter of the State, October 1,1876." Second, insert in section 49; "The number of mules, jacks and jennies, and their value."
Mr. KIMBALL [replying to Mr. Gfven] said the Committee found that it was necessary to exempt National Bank stock from municipal taxation in order to protect vested rights and avoid litigation. Such taxation would be in conflict with section 15 of the State Bank charter. And section 71 of that charter provides that no change shall be made therein without the consent of the President and Directors. It would conflict with the act of Congress authorizing National Banks.
Mr. GIVAN. I understand that the act of Congress establishing National Banks has been so amended that its stocks may be taxed for municipal and county purposes.
Mr. SATTERWHITE. That amendment was not to admit of their taxation for municipal purposes, but for county purposes. The courts in the Eleventh, Sixteenth and Seventeenth Indiana Reports have settled this matter. The law of Congress creating the National Banks provides that they shall not be taxed in excess of the stocks of the State Banks wherein they are located.
Mr. SHIRLEY could not see the necessity for continuing the exemption of the National Banks till 1876. Having hardly seen a note of the circulation of the State Bank for six or eight years, it is time we should be relieved from the law that exempts National Banks on account of a provision of the charter of the State Bank. The State Bank Charter is utterly a dead letter on the statute book, and ought to be wiped out, so as not to affect the National Bank system. What is the use of a State Bank to-day? We ought to take some steps to tax the National Banks for municipal purposes. I am in favor of removing this pretence. I believe it to be merely technical--not well founded. Governor Baker has twice recommened this taxation of National Banks. These banks are each year exempted from taxation on their stocks to the extent of hundreds of thousands, and if you tax them it will be just the saving of the tax on that sum to the people, and I am in favor of enforcing this tax now.
page: 261[View Page 261]Mr. BAXTER stated that there are seventy of these banks in operation in the State, and reading from the National Bank's charter the clause for their exemption, he said those who have gone into these National Banks have gone into them with that understanding.
Mr. CAUTHORN. The subject of the taxation of National Bank stocks has been discussed in this House before, in other sessions, and it is a dangerous question to make a record on. Bills proposing to tax this stock have been strangled in committee, and some Democrats had made a record on this question, and met the consequences of the popular condemnation. This was a tender question. Those opposed to this taxation affect to believe that it is not constitutional to tax them for municipal purposes. But if there is really any doubt about this, what are we afraid of? This legislation is for the benefit of the people, and I prefer to tax them, and let them take the question to the courts. But I am not convinced that it is unconstitutional. Governor Baker in his messages of 1869 and 1871, says we can tax them, and that they ought to be taxed for municipal purposes. The men that own these stocks are men of wealth. You make laws to compel men to pay taxes on all they have. Then why will you exempt these men, these sharpers, who are making their thousands by loaning money? We propose not to tax them more than, but only to pay taxes as other men.
Mr. KIMBALL. There is not a man on the committee but wants to tax these banks, if we can; but we regard the attempt as against the constitution and the decisions of the Supreme Court.
Mr. CAUTHORN continuing. I do not know that the question has ever been before the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court of the United States has decided that we can tax these National Banks. All these National Banks are locted in the cities and towns, and according to the last semi-annual statement before me, the total of their capital amounts to about sixty-eight millions of dollars. How much would that realize in taxes? these millions--gentlemen, can make the calculation for themselves. Then it will be found that these National Banks stocks are owned nearly all by New Yorkers and foreigners, and through these banks they are enjoying the protection and benefits of our own laws and institutions without paying anything for it. It is nothing but fair that they shonld be taxed as others. But, as I hinted, this proposition in the Legislature to tax them has been brought to grief, and the men here who aided in that result have been rebuked by the people. And where there is doubt, I prefer to give the benefit to the people.
Mr. SHIRLEY was surprised at the inconsistency of the course of gentlemen (Mr. Satterwhite and Mr. Kimball) voting to increase the per diem and to exempt the banks from taxation. The gentleman from Morgan (Mr. Satterwhite) in my own county promised my people that he would vote for a bill to tax National Banks; and now he is hiding himself behind a quibble. I prefer to take the opinion of Governor Baker, who is a good lawyer. I concur also with the gentleman from Knox (Mr. Cauthorn) when he says he would give the people the benefit of the doubt. I desire to treat the Committee on Banks and the Committee on Ways and Means with all proper respect whilst I say let us do what Governor Baker has told us to do, and if there is any legal doubt involved in our act let that be decided by the proper tribunals. I say to gentlemen that there is injustice in our negligence in this matter. As to the question of justice in the matter no man can doubt. We know that it is just and proper and right that these banks should pay their equal share of the taxes. I don't want to constitute our committees as judges of the law. Let the House come forward and do what the Governor has repeatedly recommended.
Mr. SATTERWHITE. The gentleman intimates that I am going back on my promise to my people. This is not the case however. As to my action here I am only anxious to avoid vexatious law suits and expensive future legislation, and there is a rule of the House in my favor--the gentleman has no right here to call in question my motives. But, as I have said, it is futile in the extreme to attempt here to tax these banks for municipal purposes. The question has been settled in three cases. The gentleman intimated that there is no mother bank of the State of Indiana; but he is entirely mistaken in this also. There is one in this city with a capital of $300,000, besides others.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH. What connection is there between the State and the National Banks?
Mr. SATTERWHITE. There is an act of Congress which provides that the tax on the National Banks shall not be greater than the tax on the State banks, in the States where they are located. I would legislate so as to avoid litigation.
In face of the decisions of the Supreme Court, given in three separate cases, it is page: 262[View Page 262]folly to attempt to tax these stocks for municipal purposes now. The National Banks are now paying taxes equal to 3 1/2 per cent., while other property does not average more than 1 1/2.
Mr. BAXTER had voted against the per diem bill because he believed it unjust to his constituents. He believed in taxing banks but wanted to wait till it could be done legally. He had not seen any one attempting to lobby on behalf of the banks. These banks, instead of bleeding the people as alleged by the gentleman from Knox, had been a blessing to the country. He read from the law chartering the State Bank, to show it was exempt from municipal taxes, and from the law creating National Banks, to show that they should be taxed only as other banks, and contended that there could be no question as to the illegality of the proposed tax.
Mr, BRANHAM said the committee had been unanimous in their report, but in order to put the responsibility where it properly belonged he moved to strike from the amendment that part relating to the National Banks and shares of stock in the National Banks, and let the courts decide when appealed to.
Mr. GIVAN said he did not favor the taxation of National Banks because they were wealthy, but simply because he favored equal taxation, and wanted all who shared the protection of the government to bear equal share in the burden of its support.
The motion to strike from the amendment that part relating to National Banks was agreed to.
Mr. WOOLLEN. There can be no question that he State Banks are exempted, and there is no use of a clause to exempt them. We might as well reject the whole of the amendment in relation to banks. I make that motion.
Mr. BRANHAM. If there is no mistake about the time when the State Bank Charter expires.
Mr. WOOLLEN. The real estate of the State banks is taxable as other property: hence, if it is left to the officers, they will put such of this property on the tax lists as are taxable; and the National Banks are taxable in the same way. So I think the amendment can be of no use
Mr. CAUTHORN. I agree with the gentleman from Johnson, that the amendment is of no use. But I propose to tax these banks according to the recommendation of Governor Baker. Mr. C. then read from the Governor's Messages, of 1869, and 1871, recommending the taxation of National Banks as other property for municipal purpose, and his reasoning thereon--and proceeded. The Governor tells us very plainly that we can tax these National Banks for municipal purposes. I think the Governor is right and I propose to follow his advice. I don't think these banks themselves are very clear in their reasoning on this question of the unconstitutionality of such legislation. For if they are firmly and well persuaded of the correctness of their position, why are they so tender about it if we can't tax them? Why are they expending their thousands of dollars in attempting to prevent such legislation, if they really think we can't so legislate? I propose, therefore, to take responsibility and make this legislation; and let them go to the courts with the question.
Mr. KIMBALL. I am determined that gentlemen shall not place us on the record as opposed to taxing the National Banks or any other banks; and as to the alleged attempts of the banks to prevent such legislation by money, I will affirm here, that there is not one member of the Committee on Ways and Means that any man will dare to approach corruptly. I am in favor of taxing them, and with respect to the amendment the House will take its own course. I am glad to see that the gentleman from Knox (Mr. Cauthorn) attaches so much importance to the messages of Governor Baker.
Mr. WOOLLEN'S motion to further amend the amendment of the committee by striking out the clause respecting the State Banks was adopted.
The question recurred on the adoption of the committee amendments, as amended and they were adopted.
And so the report of the Committee on Ways and Means was concurred in.
Mr. SATTERWHITE submitted further amendments to the bill, viz.:
"Add to Section 57 the following paragraph:"
It shall be the duty of the President or other principal officer of every private bank in the State, to make out, in addition to the other property required to be listed by this act, a statement under oath, showing the amount of capital of such bank, and the name and residenco of the owner or owners thereof, and the proportionate part or share of such capital owned by each, and the par or cash value thereof, which shares shall be assessed against such persons the same as other personal property, and without allowing dednctions therefrom, and the same shall be entered up for taxation accordingly."
Also, the following:
"The affidavit to the schedule in Section 49 shall be amended as follows: The words, 'excepting property not taxable or otherwise specifically taxed,' shall follow the words, 'All personal property held or belonging to me.'"
Mr. WOOLLEN. It seems to me that the act provides for that.
page: 263[View Page 263]Mr. SATTERWHITE. The section providing for the taxation of their banking propert does not provide for taxing all their other property besides.
Mr. WOOLLEN. It seems to me that there is no mercy for the private banks as they are organized now. In this bill it is provided that every man shall give in all he has.
Mr. SATTERWHITE, I am fixing that so as to meet the future.
Mr. S.'s amendments were rejected, and the question recurred on the engrossment of the bill.
On motion of Mr. BRANHAM, the bill was considered as engrossed and put upon its passage.
The bill, as amended, was read the third time by the Clerk.
Mr. BAKER demanded a call of the House, which was ordered, and 82 members answered to their names.
On motion of Mr. CAUTHORN, further proceedings under the call were dispensed with.
The final vote resulted--yeas 85, nays 2, as follows:
Yeas--Messrs. Anderson, Baker, Billingsley, Blocher, Bowser, Branham, Brett, Broadus, Butterworth, Butts, Cauthorn, Clark, Claypool, Cobb, Coffman, Cole, Crumpacker, Dial, Durham, Edwards of Lawrence, Ellsworih, Eward, Furnas, Gifford, Givan, Glasgow, Glazebrook, Goble, Goudie, Gronendyke, Hardesty, Hatch, Hedrick, Henderson, Hollingsworth, Isenhower, Johnson, Jones, Kimball, Kirkpatrick, Lenfesty, Martin, McConnelI, McKinney, Mellett, Miller, North, Odle, Offutt, Ogden, Peed, Pfrimmer, Prentiss, Reeves, Reno, Richardson, Riggs, Rudder, Rumsey, Satterwhite, Schmuck, Scott,Shirley, Shutt, Smith, Stanley, Strange, Teeter, Tingley, Thompson of Elkhart, Thompson of Spencer, Troutman, Walker, Wesner, Whitworth, Willard, Wilson of Blackford, Wilson of Ripley, Wood, Woodard, Wolflin, Woollen, Wynn and Mr. Speaker--85.
Nays--Messrs. Baxter and Cline--2.
So the bill passed the House of Representatives.
NEW BUSINESS.
Mr. GlFFORD introduced a bill 227, to provide for the payment to Township Trustees of certain moneys.
It was referred to the Judiciary Committee.
Mr. WALKER introduced a resolution reciting the neglect of the special committee on heating and ventilation of the hall to attend to their duty, and providing for raising a second committee to warm up the committee.
Mr. OFFUTT moved that the matter be referred to a committee of one, and that the member from Wayne be made chairman of that committee.
It was agreed to.
Mr. KIRKPATRICK introduced a bill 228, to amend the act in relation to disabilities of Circuit Judges
It was referred to the Judiciary Committee.
Mr. CAUTHORN offered a resolution directing the Speaker to draw his warrant upon the Treasurer in favor of W. M. Merwin and ------ for the amount allowed them by resolution of the House.
It was adopted.
THE OFFICE OF STATE PRINTER.
Mr. STANLEY called attention to the fact that the resolution of Mr. Woodard, offered Wednesday afternoon, at the adjournment had not been acted on.
The resolution was taken up, when Mr. BILLINGSLEY, Chairman of the Committee on Printing, explained that the delay in reporting back the bill to abolish the office of State Printer had arisen from the fact that the committee were debating the means to be adopted for providing for the public printing.
Mr. BRANHAM moved that the committee be excused from attendance on the sessions of the House, in order that they might have an opportunity to attend to the business before them.
Mr. SHIRLEY moved to amend by requiring them to report back both bills in their hands to-morrow morning.
The motion was agreed to, and then Mr. Branham's motion, as amended, was adopted.
SAVINGS BANKS.
Mr. RIGG'S bill [H. R. 198] to amend the act of May 12, 1869, providing for the incorporation of savings banks, was read the third time; and, on motion of Mr. SATTERWHITE (by unanimous consent), it was referred back to the Committee on Banks, with instructions to amend.
Mr. RUMSEY'S bill [H. R. 90], touching public schools in towns on grounds laid out, platted, and regarded as public grounds not dedicated, and matters therewith connected, was taken up in order on the third reading. Mr. R. said: The object is to devote undedicated public grounds in the towns of the State to the schools, in accordance with the wishes of the people of the towns. In his town there was such a public square given to the town twenty years ago, which has been used as a lumber yard, until recently the people have taken possession of it, built a school house on it, and are now using it for school purposes. He hoped the bill would pass. It would legalize their action.
The bill finally passed the House of Representatives--yeas, 80; nays, 0.
HOLIDAYS.
Mr. BUSKIRK'S bill [H. R. 64] making holidays of January 1, July 4, December page: 264[View Page 264]25, Thanksgiving nays, and general election days, was read the third time.
Mr. BUSKIRK. It is to make legal holidays of the days specified; and it provides that commercial and bank papers maturing on any of these days shall mature, in the eye of the law, on the day previous.
Mr. COBB. It seems to me it would be better to leave the laws without change in this respect; because, for example, if the law here is different from the law in Massachusetts, there will be difficulty when the protest is not made on the legal day. Why encumber the statute with it? It can not change the common law. It would be injurious only to the people of this State. It would not affect outsiders.
Mr. MILLER. I think we need this legislation to establish the legal holidays--as it has been taken in most of the States of the Union. There are other days besides Sundays in which people do not engage in the ordinary avocations of life; and commercial men ought to be able to devote their whole time to the holidays as well as other people. I do not think, so far as paper drawn in Indiana and payable in another State is concerned, that there can be any difficulty, because the law of the place where the contract is made binds in the case. It can not be a dangerous innovation.
The bill finally passed the House of Representatives--yeas 55, nays 22.
WIFE WITNESSES.
Mr. Johnson's bill [H. R. 112] to render wives competent witnesses in actions brought for damages done to them in person or character, was read the third time and passed--yeas 87, nays 0.
JUSTICES OF THE PEACE.
Mr. STRANGE introduced a bill [H. R. 229] to provide for furnishing statutes to Justices of the Peace.
Leave was granted the Judiciary Committee and the Committee on Public Expenditures to sit during the sessions of the House.
On motion of Mr. JOHNSON, his bill [H. R. 124] in relation to the soldiers' monument, was referred back to the special committee on that subject.
On motion of Mr. BUTTERWORTH, the House adjourned till to-morrow morning at nine o'clock.
