SUPPLEMENTARY
TO
THE BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS.
VOLUME ELEVENTH.
Location of the Indiana Agricultural College ---- Mr, Dunn's
Bill, H. R. 347-Debate in Continuation.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
WEDNESDAY, April 28, 1869.AFTERNOON SESSION.
[IN CONTINUATION-p.p. 125, 126.]
The SPEAKER resumed at two o'clock and announced the consideration of Mr. Carnahan's resolution for the special order for to-night at seven and a half o'clock-the consideration of Mr. Dunn's Agricultural College bill [H. R. 347.]
Mr. CHITTENDEN moved a substitute amendment for a Joint Convention of the two Houses to ballot for the location on Friday (to-morrow) at two o'clock p. m.
On motion of Mr. ZOLLARS it was laid on the table-affirmative fifty, negative not counted.
Mr. SLEETH moved ineffectually to make the order for two and a half o'clock this afternoon; and the question recurred on Mr. Carnahan's resolution.
Mr. McFADIN spoke against a night session for determining this Agricultural College question.
On motion of Mr. DITTEMOEE, Mr. Carnahan's resolution was laid on the table-affirmative 46, negative not counted.
Mr. McFADIN moved to make the Agricultural bill the special order for to-morrow at two o'clock.
Mr. DUNN proposed ineffectually, that the bill be made the special order for three o'clock.
Mr. FULLER proposed to amend so as to proceed at once to ballot for a location, and that no other business shall be in order except privileged motions till the location shall be obtained.
Mr. HAMILTON demanded the previous question, and amidst some confusion of voices in debate, and under its force, Mr. Fuller's amendment was adopted.
The order, as amended by Mr. Fuller, was then adopted.
Mr. WILDMAN moved, that each member be allowed twenty minutes to state the proposition for any location which he may represent.
Mr. VATER objected to the motion, because it contravenes the order just adopted.
Mr. HAMILTON considered that twenty minutes ought to be allowed to present the merits of each place competing for the location.
Mr. STANTON, Mr. Speaker, I apprehend that any action taken here by the House for the utter suppression of debate will not be well received. I am in favor of the location of this College now. And I have a proposition from the Trustees of the Northwestern Christian University, that I would like to present: and my colleague, [Mr. Vater,] who has the floor on this bill, ought to have the right to speak. The proposition to which I refer was handed to me yesterday afternoon by Mr. Butler, President of the Board of Trustees of the Northwestern Christian University.
Mr. WILDMAN. Mr. Speaker: Is my motion in order?
The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks it is not; because the resolution adopted by the House prescribes that no other business shall be in order till the location shall be obtained.
Mr. COFFROTH. Mr. Speaker: Before the vote was taken on the adoption of the resolution of the gentleman from Warrick, [Mr. Fuller,] the gentleman from Noble, [Mr. Taber,] asked whether any member would have page: 335[View Page 335] opportunity to present the proposition of his locality; and I made that proposition distinctly to the House; and that understanding was taken as I thought, by unanimous consent.
Mr. DAVIS of Floyd. Mr. Speaker: The only point is, whether all the members from the County of Marion shall be heard on the Marion proposition. There is no objection to any gentleman occupying twenty minutes for one locality. But, after that, that locality is done. What is the use of undoing what we have done?
Mr. VATER. Mr. Speaker: I insist upon mv objection to the motion.
Mr. COFFROTH. I move to reconsider the vote adopting the order to proceed to the location.
Mr. BOBO. I move to lay the motion to reconsider on the table.
Mr. COFFROTH. Mr. Speaker: This resolution offered by the gentleman from Warrick, [Mr. Fuller,] operates as a rule of the House, and cannot be adopted till after twenty four hours notice. Therefore these proceedings are out of order.
The SPEAKER. The Chair does not think the point of order well taken.
Mr. STANTON. Mr. Speaker: I am willing to reconsider, and limit the speeches to fifteen minutes.
The motion to lay the motion to reconsider on the table was rejected-yeas 37, nays 50: and the question recurred on the adoption of the motion to reconsider.
The motion to reconsider was agreed to: and the question recurred on Mr. Fuller's original resolution for location.
Mr. COFFROTH. Mr. Speaker: I now move to amend the resolution so as to require the roll to be called, and to permit each member, when his name is called, to present the propositions and claims of his locality, and allow him a fifteen minutes speech.
Mr. OSBORN. Mr. Speaker: It seems to me that we are getting along very slowly with this thing.
The SPEAKER. We are operating under the force of the previous question. The motion of the gentleman from Huntington cannot be entertained.
Mr. FULLER. Mr. Speaker: I am willing to accept the modification of the resolution as offered by the gentleman from Huntington, [Mr. Coffroth.]
Mr. VATER. Mr. Speaker: I submit, that, if the House is acting under the previous question, the gentleman's amendment cannot be accepted.
The SPEAKER. The point is well taken.
Mr. COFFROTH. Then I move to reconsider the vote by which the House seconded-the previous question.
The SPEAKER. That cannot be done, under the precedents of the last session.
Mr. CORY. Mr. Speaker: I move to lay the resolution of the gentleman from Warrick on the table.
The SPEAKER. That motion cannot be entertained now.
Mr. CORY. Well; I suppose we can vote down the resolution.
The SPEAKER. That is perhaps the only thing that can be done now for the gentleman.
Mr. Fuller's resolution was then rejected-yeas 36, nays 52.
Mr. FULLER. Mr. Speaker: I now submit the following:
RESOLVED, That the House do now proceed to locate the Indiana Agricultural College; and that for that purpose, the Clerk shall call the roll of members; and each member when his name is called, shall designate the place of his choice; and no other business shall be in order till the location is obtained: Provided, That each member shall have twenty minutes to present his proposition.
Mr. WILLIAMS of Knox. Mr. Speaker I submit the point of order. That this resolution of the gentleman from Warrick [Mr. Fuller] is new matter, and can not be entertained without leave of the House.
Mr. WILDMAN. Mr. Speaker: I move to suspend the Rules for the consideration of that resolution.
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker: I submit the point, that the consideration of the resolution cannot be in order to-day because it is an amendment of the Rules.
The SPEAKER. The chair cannot entertain the point.
Mr. ZOLLARS. Mr. Speaker: I move to lay the motion to suspend the Rules on the table.
Mr. DAVIS of Floyd. Mr. Speaker. The original proposition here was introduced yesterday by the gentleman from Posey [Mr. Carnahan.] Then the resolution of the gentleman from Warrrick [Mr. Fuller] was submitted this afternoon by way of amendment. Will the Speaker have the kindness to tell me how we got rid of the proposition of the gentleman from Posey?
The SPEAKER. That was got rid of by being laid on the table.
Mr. DAVIS. By being suppressed. But the proposition of the gentleman from Warrick was an amendment to an amendment.
Mr. STANTON. The motion of the gentleman from Cass [Mr. McFadin] was the original proposition.
The SPEAKER. The original proposition was submitted by the gentleman from Cass [Mr. McFadin.] Then the gentleman from Lawrence [Mr. Dunn] proposed to amend, by making the subject the special order for three page: 336[View Page 336] o'clock this afternoon. Then the gentleman Warrick [Mr. Fuller] submitted his resolution as an amendment by way of substitute, and it was adopted; and the question on the amendment as amended was then put to the House and adopted. Subsequently, the vote for the adoption of the resolution of the gentleman from Warrick was reconsidered, and it was voted down. So that matter was disposed of. The Chair entertains the motion of the gentleman from Allen [Mr. Zollars] to lay the motion of the gentleman from Howard [Mr. Wildman] to suspend the Rules for the consideration of the resolution of the gentleman from Warrick on the table.
Mr. OSBORN. Mr. Speaker: I understand that we have a rule of the House., that bills and resolutions shall not be introduced except upon the call of the roll: and I submit, this changes the rule.
The Speaker. The rule is, that when bills and resolutions are introduced, they shall be introduced upon the roll call. The Chair does not think that the point of the gentleman from Putnam [Mr. Osbron] is well taken. The motion is to suspend the order of busines. The question pending is to lay that motion on the table.
The motion to lay on the table was rejected-yeas 33, nays 52-and the question recurred on the motion to suspend the order of business; which was agreed to.
So, the order of business was suspended, and the question recurred again on the adoption of the resolution submitted by Mr. Fuller.
Mr. DUNN Mr. Speaker: I offer the following as a substitute for the resolution submitted by the gentleman from Warrick:
RESOLVED, That any member from such counties as have propositions before the General Assembly in reference to the location of the Agricultural College be now allowed twenty minutes to discuss the question.
RESOLVED, That we then proceed to vote by ballot for the location of the Agricultural College,the location having the lowest number of votes to be rejected at the close of each ballot till the House shall agree upon a location.
Mr. COFFROTH. Upon that I demand the previous question.
Mr. STANTON. I hope the gentleman will not do that. I desire to speak to the resolution.
The SPEAKER. Debate is not in order.
Mr. ZOLLARS. The rule which requires the roll to be called has not been suspended. I insist that the roll must now be called.
The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks that the point is not well taken. The question is: will the House second the demand for the previous question?
Mr. RUDDELL. I submit that the resolution of the gentleman from Warrick has not yet been presented to the House.
The SPEAKER. It was taken as resented, with modification, by general consent although previously not reduced to form.
Mr. STANTON. I call for the yeas and nays.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman cannot demand the yeas and nays at this stage of the question.
Mr. COFFROTH. Mr. Speaker: I will withdraw the demand for the previous question and move to amend the amendment the gentleman from Lawrence, [Mr. Dunn as to strike out that latter clause which requires the lowest number to be dropped: and upon that I demand again the previous question.
The House then gave a second to the demand, and the main question was ordered.
The SPEAKER. The first question is on the adoption of the amendment of the gentleman from Huntington.
Mr. FULLER. The substitute requires us to vote by ballot-mine viva voce.
The SPEAKER. Debate is not in order.
The amendment (Mr. Coffroth's) to the amendment was adopted on a division-affirmative 51, negative not counted.
The substitute amendment by Mr. Dunn, as amended by Mr. Coffroth, was then adopted without a division.
Mr. STANTON. Mr. Speaker: I have a proposition from the President of the Board of Trustees of the Northwestern Christian University to this effect:
That the Agricultural College "be located, established, and perpetrated upon their University Grounds and Campus," being twenty-five acres, and "be thereon perpetually maintained and sustained, by the use and application of all the funds and means accrued and to accrue to the State, for the use of such Agricultural College."
Said College to be under exclusive control and management of the State, and its properly constituted authorities.
University Grounds to be under Board of Directors, to consist of seven members three to be chosen by the General Assembly, three by said Corporation, and the seventh by these six conjointly.
Said College to have perpetual use of said grounds.
Within five years from acceptance, the State, with funds granted by county of Marion, and whatever sources, shall build on said grounds said Agricultural College, and "until the same be done, Provided the same be done within five years, the Agricultural College to have the use of the present College building."After the erection of an Agricultural College building, the other College to have exclusive page: 337[View Page 337] of present buildings, and such other buildings as the said Corporation May erece upon said grounds.
The rights and privileges herein granted, are intended to be perpetual, and only to be forfeited by the State by removal of Agricultural College.
Estimated money value of property of Corporation: College Grounds, seventy-five thousand dollars. College Building, seventy-five thousand dollars."To this may be added its endowment fund, to be held inviolate for that purpose-one hundred and ten thousand dollars.
"The Corporations," says Mr. Butler, "offers to the State an equal interest in or undivided half of, its campus grounds and buildings."The sum of the value of these College facilities tendered for the use of the State is two hundred and sixty thousand dollars.
The Commissioners of Marion County offer one hundred thousand dollars in County bonds, at six per cent interest, payable in ten and twenty years conditioned that the College be located within three miles of the City of Indianapolis.
The sum of these endowments is three hundred and sixty thousand dollars, with conditions that admit of the same location. And with this also may be taken and included the proposition of Dr. Gustavus Scherman to donate twenty acres of land, southeast corner of 12th street and North Michigan road, or forty acres of land, northwest corner of Crawfordsville and County road, a quarter of a mile northwest of the City, valued at twenty thousand dollars; and the proposition of the Fletcher heirs to donate twenty-seven acres of land adjoining the grounds and campus of the Northwestern Christian University-the latter having an estimated value of sixty-one thousand dollars.
Now, sir, a few words as to this general proposition. Other points are coming in here and competing for this location. If you locate in connection with the Northwestern Christian University, it will be a distinct Institution controlled by the State. Consider what we offer here: The University, two hundred and sixty thousand dollars; the County of Marion one hundred thousand dollars; The Fletcher heirs sixty-one thousand dollars; and Dr. Scherman twenty thousand dollars. The sum total is four hundred & forty one thousand dollars. And I understand that the Commissioners of Marion County will "propose, or have already proposed, seventy-five thousand dollars more.
The proposition from Monroe County is more properly the assumption of a proposition by that interest for the State of Indiana to turn over the Indiana University to the Agricultural College. It certainly is not for the gentleman from Monroe, [Mr. Buskirk,] or any other gentleman, to say, that the Agricultural College shall be located down there at Bloomington upon such an assumption. But if the State of Indiana sees proper, she can take what she has there for a University and transfer or remove it to the City of Indianapolis. The proposition of Monroe County as a county is to give fifty thousand dollars for the location there of the Agricultural College. That is all. They offer no comparison with the donations from Tippecanoe County. Tippecanoe has made a very generous offer.
There has been a proposition to divide this National endowment fund between the State University, the Normal School, and other schools of learning in the State. But this idea is not in the Marion County proposition. It was proposed at the last session by the Senator from Monroe [Judge Hughes.] No proposition to divide and scatter this fund should meet with any favor. It is hostile to what should be the great object in the establishment of this Institution; That object being to establish a great central Institution of which the State might be justly proud, with all the departments and schools of science, philosophy, law, medicine, etc., which pertain to the University. And what location is there in the State that presents the facilities of access for the people which we have here at Indianapolis? There is none that can so combine all the facilities and advantages for making this Institution a credit to the State as Indianapolis-and gentlemen know it full well. The gentleman from Monroe told us, at the regular session that the State of Pennsylvania made a great mistake in locating her Agricultural College with another school, and the consequence was, they both died together. Then let the State of Indiana be admonished not to do the same thing by uniting this College with the State University at Bloomington. I do not doubt that Monroe is a good county, and that there are eminent men who have been educated and are still living at Bloomington. But it is not the place for such an Institution. Where do you find old Harvard? It is near the old City of Boston-the Hub. Where do you find Yale, and Brown University? They are at great central points where men do naturally congregate.
Now, sir, it is for the House to say to-day, whether they will locate this Institution in some out of the way place, or in the great centre of all the industrial, mechanical and commercial interests of the State. It does seem to me, that we should look at this fact as of the greatest value in the question of locating this College. And the same objection that attaches to the Bloomington location, attaches also to all the others named outside of Indianapolis, but perhaps not so strongly to some of them. page: 338[View Page 338] I insist that it is our duty, sir, to place this Institution where all concerned may have all the readiest and best advantages of access and training, and in making the location to have more regard to these than to the donations that are offered by competitors for out of the way and incovenient localities. This Institution is not to be regarded as an ephemeral thing, for the use of a day, or of a single generation, but as an Institution of great public and perpetually growing utility, demanding at our hands, a location where it will enjoy the best facilities for the advancement of the leading interests of the country for which it was designed.
Mr. Speaker: I make this plea for what I believe to be for the benefit of the State at large, and not, as the gentleman says, because we want every thing here at Indianapolis. It is for the interest of the State that we should have this College here, just as it is for the interest of business men to come here and invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in manufactures and trade. And have not members here from Marion county voted for all the appropriations for the Normal School at Terre Haute? and does the gentleman forget what we have done and are still doing every year for Blooming-ton? And what we have accorded by our votes here in these,directions, is the best pledge of what at the proper time we will be ready to do for the Northern and Eastern portions of the State.
It is not right to crowd into the same quarter all the great public institutions of the State, and I do not believe it will be done. Nor can I believe that gentlemen will permit themselves to be drawn away from a just and most advantageous location of this College by any feeling of prejudice. It was upon this principle, that I advocated the proposition for a Reformatory for girls and women, before I knew there was a provision in the bill locating it at Indianapolis.
Mr. BUSKIRK. (Mr. Gordon in the Chair.) Mr. Speaker: I was out of the Hall when the gentleman read the propositions from Marion County. I would like to ask him, if the proposition on behalf of the Northwestern Christian University is made by the Trustees of that Institution?
Mr. STANTON. I understand that it is. They had a meeting on Friday.
Mr. BUSKIRK. Is the proposition of the Fletcher heirs any thing more than simply a proposition to give the land?
Mr. STANTON. It is nothing more.
Mr. BUSKIRK. Are all these propositions binding, if the location of the College is made at Indianapolis?
Mr. STANTON. Of course. No man who is acquainted with these parties could ask anything more. You can have the deeds and papers to-night, if you make the location here, if they are not presented here tomorrow then you can make the location down at Bloomington or some other point.
Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Mr. Speaker: Having on a former occasion presented my views at length on the claims of my Count for the location of this College, I shall only occupy the attention of the House for a few minutes, in again urging those claims, have been largely increased since the session.
In addition to the offer made by the Battle Ground and the County Commissioners the Hon. John Purdue of Lafayette, offers the further munificent sum of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars on condition that it is located in Tippecanoe County, and that it bear his name.
If located there, your College is an assured success. Mr. Purdue is an eminently practical man, of large means and whatever he undertakes in the way of business, he carries to a successful completion. Besides all this he takes a deep interest in the cause of Education. He has neither wife or child. He has provided liberally for his family relations, and in some sense this University, bearing his name may be regarded as his only child; and there need be no doubt in the mind of any one that it will be liberally provided for.
Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to draw an invidious comparison between the offers made by my County, and those of other places seeking this location. I prefer to leave that to others, and rest the question upon its merits with the judgment of the House.
In regard to Bloomington and the State University I entertain the kindest feelings. The Indiana University has a Faculty of which any Institution might be proud. She has graduated a great many young men, who are not only an honor to our own State, but to the whole country. In conclusion, I submit it to the judgmrnt of honorable gentlemen, whether we can afford to loose this large sum of money offered by the people I represent to the cause of Education in our young and growing State?
But a word more. It might be proper for me to state, that it is the suggestion and design of Mr. Purdue, that no part, either of the National donation or his donation of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars shall be put into brick and morter, but that all shall remain as an endowment for the College. And I am authorized by Mr. Purdue to say, that, if no other party will do better, he stands ready to give one hundred acres of land for a site for the buildings, &c., of the Institution, near the city of Lafayette. Mr. Purdue does not favor the Battle Ground location.
Mr. BUSKIRK. (Mr. Gordon in the page: 339[View Page 339] Chair.) Is it not true that the property of the Battleground would not be available for the College?
Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. It would not.
Mr. BUSKIRK. How do you expect to get the buildings?
Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Mr. Purdue has a wide acquaintance in the country, and especially in the city of New York; and he says he has assurances of the aid of solid men in this enterprise in which he takes so much interest. But there are propositions at various points in Tippecanoe County besides the Battleground. I will just refer to one. Here it is in writing, from a man whose word is as as his bond, and who is able to do what he says he will do:
"I propose to donate my farm for the Agricultural College, if the same is located upon it. It contains three hundred and twenty acres, including Shawnee Mound and forty acres of timber land. The land of the Prarie has an elevation of about 75 feet; and it has an inexhaustable supply of sand and gravel, and of springs of water; and an abundant supply of clay for making brick. It is not surpassed in the county or State in its desirableness as to health, fertility or location. It is worth thirty thousand dollars. My neighbors stand ready to pledge themselves for fifty thousand dollars toward the buildings.
"Signed by J. MEHARY.
Mr. BUSKIRK. How far is that from Lafayette?
Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. Twelve miles from Lafayette, with two connecting gravel Of course, it will be for the Trustees of the College to name the place for it. But if nobody else should give an acceptable location, Mr. Purdue will give one hundred acres; and these one hundred acres will be worth one hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Land has been sold in that quarter for one hundred and ten to one hundred and twelve dollars an acre.
Mr. BUSKIRK. Is not Mr. Purdue's proposition made upon the express condition, that the College shall be named after him?
Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I know nothing about that but what is contained in the proportion itself. It seems to me that such a condition would be nothing but right, in view of Ms donations of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in money, and one hundred and twenty thousand dollars in land: and this besides the consideration that Mr. Purdue has neither wife nor child, and that this College becomes his darling pet. He is worth at least half a million of dollars. And Mr. Purdue, if he gets the College, means to make it a success.
I would say further, in regard to the objection pf the gentlemen from Monroe, [Mr. Buskirk,] that Mr. Purdue's payment of fifteen thousand dollars a year would be too small a fund. I am informed that Mr. Purdue has told a gentleman here, that he would pay the money as fast as it might be wanted.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I think I have presented all that is necessary in regard to this proposition from the County of Tippecanoe. I have nothing to say against any other locality. I concede freely, that the Indiana University at Bloomington is an honor to the State. I know that she has graduated many worthy and honorable men. We make our proposition along with others, and leave it upon its merits to the decision of the General Assembly. It would seem to me, however not to be the part of wisdom to refuse this large amount of money and means proposed in this way to be given to the cause of Education.
Mr. McFADIN. Mr. Speaker: There are nine minutes left of the time of the gentleman from Tippecanoe, [Mr. Breckinridge,] and I ask leave of the House to occupy that nine minutes-the remainder of his twenty minutes.
Mr. BUSKIRK. If the same advantage is extended to Monroe County I shall not object.
The SPEAKER. (Mr. Gordon in the Chair.) If the gentleman from Cass [Mr. McFadin] has a proposition to make, he has a right to the floor to submit it.
Mr. BUSKIRK. If he have a proposition from his own county.
Mr. McFADIN. I have a proposition of one hundred thousand dollars, by Dr. Rollins and others.
Mr. BUSKIRK. Mr. Speaker: I appeal to the House, whether this proposition is to be received in good faith, or whether it is not merely an evasion of the rule?
Mr. McFADIN. Then I will make it on my own behalf. [Laughter.]
Mr. BUSKIRK. Mr. Speaker: I call for the reading of the resolution authorizing this debate; and I submit this question to the House: Whether any gentleman can speak now, except those representing counties having propositions here for this location?
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker: As I recollect, the resolution does not state, that the proposition shall come from the gentleman's own-county. It does not state that the location shall be in his own county: but that he shall have twenty minutes to present the claims of the locality of his choice. Any member has the right to present his locality.
The SPEAKER. The ruling of the gentleman from Boone was no doubt honestly made. But it recurs to me that under his construction, every gentleman on the floor would have the right to speak twenty minutes; and I am going to take the sense of the House upon the ruling of the gentleman from Boone? [Mr. Gordon,] under which the gentleman from Cass, [Mr. McFadin] is claiming the right to speak.
page: 340[View Page 340]Mr. CORY. I understand that the presiding officer of the House gave the gentleman from Cass the right to speak.
The SPEAKER. There remains always with the Chair the right to revise the ruling. I do not propose to revise the ruling of the gentleman from Boone, but to submit the question of its correctness to the House.
Mr. STEWART of Rush. If the ruling of the gentleman of Boone is not sustained, we shall rule out at least one locality from a hearing on the floor-I refer to the County of; Hancock, for which, I understand the gentleman from Franklin, [Mr. Cory,] has been invited to speak.
The SPEAKER reads Mr. Dunn's resolution as adopted for the direction of the House under this order.
Mr. MITCHELL. Unless the proposition be submitted to the House at the time the: gentleman takes the floor, or before that time, he has not the right to speak.
The SPEAKER. That is the ruling of the Chair: and the question is: Shall that stand as the judgment of the House? Shall the gentleman from Cass have the right to proceed? The vote on this question was taken on a division of the House, and reported-affirmative 33, negative 36; so the ruling of the gentleman from Boone was revised, and the subsequent ruling of the Speaker was sustained.
Mr. McFADIN. I call for a recount.
Mr. DAVIS of Floyd. Mr. Speaker: I am perfectly willing to hear the gentleman from Cass. But the plain English of the resolution for this order is, that we shall pursue a particular course. I will vote for the gentleman from Cass to speak; but I cannot vote to give; the resolution the construction which is demanded, because the plain English of it is the other way.
Mr. McFADIN. I object to the manner in which it was read.
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from! Cass will take his seat.
Mr. DAVIS of Floyd. Mr. Speaker: I understand that we may vote to give a construction to the resolution that will not allow the floor to the gentleman from Cass; and that afterwards we may give him the right to speak.
Mr. COFFROTH. Mr. Speaker: The question as presented by the Chair to the House was not exactly in the parliamentary order, Upon the question as presented by the Chair: Is the gentleman from Cass under the resolution entitled to speak? I have to vote No. But if the question were simply: May he speak? I should vote Aye.
The SPEAKER. If the construction of the gentleman from Boone had been sustained and carried out, it would have permitted every gentleman on the floor to occupy twenty minutes. But, as gentlemen are aware I as a party somewhat interest in this and therefore I referred the question House.
Mr. McFADIN. Mr. Speaker: I will withdraw my proposition. Does the Chair hold, that where a gentleman who is entitled to speak does not occupy his twenty minutes, I can occupy the remainder of his time?
The SPEAKER. The gentleman cannot unless it is by the consent of the House.
Mr. GORDON. Mr. Speaker: I did not rule, that the gentleman from Cass could occupy the unexpired time of the gentleman from Tippecanoe. My ruling was, that he had the right to present an independent pro. position, though it might not be for any locality in his own county.
On motion of Mr. DITTEMORE, it was ordered by consent, that the gentleman from Cass be allowed to speak twenty minutes.
Mr. McFADIN. Mr. Speaker: I will be magnanimous. The House has given me twenty minutes; I will occupy but ten. Sometimes I may be wrong. But I never give it up until I find that out; and then my own conscience obliges me.
Mr. Speaker: I will present the claims of the Northern part of the State. I am not going to run any other locality. I consider that the County of Monroe has claims-good claims; and so have the counties of Marion, Hancock and Putnam-all these have their claims upon our attention. But we also have our claims. In the northern part of the State of Indiana not one of these great public institutions have ever yet been located. And, sir, we have the very garden spot of the world. We have men of energy and worth, good climate, good soil, and we abound in building materials of all kinds I am not speaking especially in behalf of Logansport, but I am speaking in behalf of the flourishing city of Lafayette-forty-five miles west of us. You have all heard of it, sir, as a city located on the Wabash river. With reference to the county of Marion and the city of Indianapolis, I think they have had their full share. I consider also, that the State has done about all she well could do in behalf of the counties of Monroe and Vigo. And now, in the northern part of the State we ask for the location of this Agricultural College. This is no mere selfish demand. We have the facilities and advantages that invite the location. We have railroads running all through the northern part of the State. It is true we have a State prison there, but this we do not consider an improvement. It is rather a burden upon us; and we would rather it were in some other part of the State, where prisons are needed, and where it might require less pay to take the prisoners.In reference to the proposition of Judge page: 341[View Page 341] Purdue - he is a very wealthy, and a very able man, and has nothing to live for but himself, and to following the promptings of his public spirited, noble and humane impulses; and how naturally and grandly would they fall in with an expression from the General Assembly in favor of locating this College at the Tippecanoe Battleground. Sir, this locality is historical. This is the ground where General Harrison, in 1811, so heroically put an end to the war - the long and weary strife of blood - with the Indians of the Northwest. And I am informed, that within a very short distance from the Battleground, there is one of the finest springs of living water in the State of Indiana. [Laughter.] Yes sir! I thank the House, Mr. Speaker, for their attention: and while I am taking up your valuable time, I am pleased to see faces of cheerfulness and good humor. If we can't get Indianapolis, we can go on farther, and set this College down on the memorable field of Tippecanoe. [Cheers.] I speak for Tippecanoe. [Continued cheerings.] And I am glad to be relieved from saying much more, because I feel that the claims of Tippecanoe have been well represented by the gentleman [Mr. Breckinridge] who last occupied the floor in that behalf. Living near there myself, I would like to have an Institution of this kind, so that I might conveniently visit it, when my grand children might go to College there. [Laughter.] I stand up here for the location of this College in our part of the State, because nearly every other quarter of the State has been distinguished by the location of some public institution. Gentlemen talk about the river advantages of the centre and south: Sir, we have Lake Michigan in the North. And when we come up here, modestly, and ask for the location of the Agricultural College, it cannot be that the House is unwilling to give us a few moments to present our claims. [Applause.] And now sir, having spoken out my ten minutes, I return thanks for the opportunity which the House has accorded to me to present the claims for the location of this College which are felt in the northern portion of the State of Indiana. [Prolonged applause.]
Mr. CORY. Mr. Speaker: I am not here representing Hancock County; but I have been requested to present the claims of Hancock County for the location of this Agricultural College, and I will proceed to do so. The county of Hancock, by her commissioners, propose to give for the location of the Indiana Agricultural College one hundred and twenty-thousand dollars. This proposition is in writing. And additional to this, it is proposed to give one hundred acres of good land, adjoining the town of Greenfield, the county-seat of Hancock County;-lying twenty miles east of Indianapolis. That is a good location. It is central. There is hardly a member upon this floor, but desires to locate this college centrally. Other things being equal, they are generally in favor of a central location. Marion County is regarded as the center of the State; and, if we would locate it precisely in the center, we would select Marion County. But there is a difference between the proposition from Marion County and that from Hancock; and that is here: Marion County offers one hundred thousand dollars in bonds, running ten and twenty-years ; and we might be obliged to expend one hundred thousand dollars on this college before we would realize their bonus. But the offer from Hancock County may be received at once: so that their one hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars and one hundred acres of land placed at once in the hands of the College Board, they may go right to work on the buildings.
During the regular session, some gentlemen insinuated here, that the land in Hancock County is not as good as it might be. I am willing to acknowledge, sir, that they have in Hancock County some land that are thin. This is the case in all the counties of the State. But they do not offer the thin lands to the College. They offer as good lands as can be found in the State of Indiana. They offer rich bottom land, most desirably located. This offer is perhaps as good as any other that has been made upon this floor. It takes but one hour to reach it, and one hour to run back, from this city. One of our most flourishing railroads passes immediately by the town of Greenfield, and through and over the land proposed to be donated for this College. So you might regard this as a central location. Near enough to the center, and near enough to the city. A college ought not to be located in a great city. I submit that it is not desirable to put this college very near, or within the corporate limits of a large city. But I do not care to argue that point.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I should not have said this much, if it had not been for certain things that have occurred on this floor to-day. My idea is that we should be allowed to present the claims of each locality;-that we should have ample time; and that every member should be treated exactly alike. But when I saw a disposition to suppress other claims, after certain points have occupied the House for an hour or an hour and a halt; I felt that I would like to put in a word. And you have actually allowed to Hancock twenty minutes, after giving to Putnam an hour and twenty minutes, and Bloomington an hour and twenty minutes! Now, sir, why have you done this? I put it to gentlemen who wish to act fairly in this matter-why?
A VOICE. Go ahead, and make your proposition.
page: 342[View Page 342]Mr. CORY. The gentleman tells me to go ahead, and make my proposition, if I have got one. But I will not be personal. Fairness is what I want, and all I want here.-I want to say here: that if my first choice can't receive the location, then I will take what I conceive to be the second best choice, and I will vote for that. And I will say this word more: that we have a magnificent fund here, out of which we propose to build a college in the interests of agriculture and of mechanic arts; and the true Indianian will never endorse our act, if at any time we propose to make this college an adjunct of any other institution. If we propose to tack this College upon some other, and make it the mere tail of some other Institution, the people of Indiana will never endorse our act. It should never be given to any other Institution. It should not be hidden away at Bloomington or anywhere else, where it will lose its identity with the interests of the mechanical, the agricultural and industrial classes of the State. It is to be a College in the interest of agriculture and the mechanic arts. So the people understand its purpose and design, and they will never excuse the act that would take i t from them. It is not enough to say here, that this Institution can't succeed alone as an Agricultural College. The people won't believe it. This fund will endow an Institution that may run fifteen professorships. Would not that be enough? Other Institutions may fail for want of money. But this cannot fail on that account; because only the income can be used for current expenses. We have here an endowment of two hundred and forty thousand dollars. I may not be exactly correct; but we may use in the neighborhood of twenty-five thousand dollars yearly; the proceeds of the interest on the endowment, which I understand is invested in United States Bonds. The fund is ample. It does not depend upon money to be drawn from the working classes. You may have students, or you may not have students. Wherever you have got an Institution in such a comfortable fix, it is a success; it can't help but be a success.
The only idea that I wish still further to impress upon the minds of members is this: We should use this fund as Congress intended we should use it: in the interest of the industrial classes-in the interest of the laboring men of the State. We should make it a distinct Institution of its kind; and not make it a department or a chair in some other Institution.
Mr. NEFF. Mr. Speaker: Before I proceed with what I have to say, I will ask for the reading of the proposition from my County, sent here to my colleague [Mr. Osborn.
The proposition was read by the Clerk to this effect:
[Date.]
State of Indiana, Putnam County.
We the undersigned Commissioners of Putnam County agree to pay to the Trustees of the Indiana Agricultural College one hundred thousand dollars provided said College be located in Putnam County - county bonds-payable in ten years.
[Signed]
Mr. NEFF. There is also a proposition tendering forty acres of land upon the same condition as to location. It was tendered at the regular session.
Mr. Speaker: I shall not perhaps occupy the time of the House to the extent of the twenty minutes which has been allotted to members for the different localities in presenting the claims which I conceive they have in my county for the location of this Institution. My Colleague having presented our claims last night, perhaps I may be now regarded as an intruder. However this may be, it is at any rate with diffidence that I can speak here when I think the House would prefer action to hearing some man talk. I claim, sir, to be a very modest man,-which I could establish bepond any reasonable doubt, if I had time. [Laughter.]
I do not know, sir, that I should have said anything at this time, but for one remark of the honorable speaker [Mr. Buskirk] last evening when this matter was being discussed. That gentleman said, with a good deal of emphasis, that Putman County was not in the ring-that Putman County had not been heard from. Well, she wants to be heard; and, as we talk the matter over, that fact may be seen. Sir, I have found, in this debate, a verification of the old adage: "Every crow thinks her own the blackest." Every gentleman competing here thinks he has superior claims for this location. Well, I am satisfied that many of us very much desire this location: and I can say, that those making this proposition which has been just read here, would like very much to have this College located with them. But I have another proposition.
We are here but for a very brief space of time. But what we do-perhaps it would be well for us to consider-will be done for all time. Hence, as men who desire to do what is right between man and man, it is our duty, not only to represent our immediate constituents, but also to represent and act for the general interest and welfare of the State at large. We should not view this matter altogether in the light of the advantages it might bring to the locality that presents the greatest amount of money. We should not disregard all other questions, and decide as to the location simply on that ground. The question of eligibility should enter into this matter.
I should not now, perhaps, have much to say in regard to the claims of Putnam County, - having spoken on this subject once at the last session, and my colleague [Mr. Osborn] having page: 343[View Page 343] devoted his time to it but last evening. All I have to say is: we offer a good location-a healthy location, and that one of the great national thoroughfares passes through it; and that it is hut an hour and five minutes ride from this capitol. I am not one who believes that this Institution ought to be located in a crowded city. I conceive that it is attached to agriculture as its primary object. That being the grand leading object, we should locate it in an agricultural region. As intimated by the gentleman fcom Franklin [Mr. Cory,] there will be a superficial fund accruing from the endowment, after the buildings shall have been erected, to institute and maintain teachers in all the various branches of science contemplated in the act of Congress. Then, I ask you, sir, why make it a side-show to any other Institution of learning?
I shall endeavor to avoid the drawing of any invidious distinctions and comparisons, as against other localities and other Institutions. As far as Monroe Connty is concerned, I have many friends there. They have there a noble and enterprising people. I know they have struggled there against many obstacles and much opposition. And it has long been with them a matter of ingenious local pride to maintain and keep up the State University. And they have actually done more than ought to have been expected of them. They have done much, and succeeded well. They have become almost historical through their great men. But this Agricultural College is not designed so much to make statesmen-not so much to teach the classics, as to teach farming. I hold, that the time has arrived, and now is, that the people of this country should turn their attention to agriculture-especially in the great West. I hold that the time has fully come when we should elevate the student of agriculture-when we should foster and sustain it, and no longer leave it, and treat it as a sideshow to the professions and the halls of learning, in the various sectional and sectarian schools of the State. Those Institutions are doing their own peculiar work, and should not expect the help of the State: I ask it not for Putnam County-for the Asbury University there. Asbury has struggled on, and on, till she has overtopped and mastered the waves. She needs no help. She asks it not. She is now rearing a new superstructure of which the county will be proud.
But, as I was saying, if I have warm friends, they are at Bloomington. It is the only place of which it can be said of me: He recited a lesson at College. And that was but for a brief space of time. But what does that locality base its claims upon? They say they will give fifty thousand dollars. That is clever, put why send our young men away down there into Monroe? It is a beautiful place to look at; but a most excellent place to move from. [Laughter.] Why not make it more central? I am not making a speech any more for Green-castle, than for any other central locality. Why go down to Monroe County ? Why not go out where there are larger farming interests ? where the young men in attendance in this College can apply themselves to the practice of their calling ? where they may find a desirable emulation in the example of the larger farmers in the center and more northern part of the State ? I think, sir, that we can find a more eligible location than Bloomington. And I will say at the same time, that, after looking over all this ground, Putnam County is, in my judgment, about as good a location as we can find.-I do not desire to weary the House.-We offer, as I have said, a healthy, and every way, a desirable and eligible location. But why pass by Indianapolis ? It is a crowded city. But there, in Putnam, every one is a farmer. I have nothing to say in regard to Lafayette, but this : I think it is a little too far north.-And I think, that Putnam County is the very place of all others for this College,and that gentlemen would sleep sounder to-night for locating it there.
Mr. BUSKIRK. (Mr. Johnston of Parke in the Chair.) Mr. Speaker: I do not propose to occupy but a moment's time in what I have to say-occupied as I have been all day. I wish to refer briefly to the propositions from the different competing localities.In the first place, I will refer to the Tippecanoe proposition; and I think I shall be able to satisfy you that it is not such a proposition as the House ought to accept.
The donation proposed by Mr. Purdue is one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, payable in ten years, without interest-not to be used for the erection of buildings, but as a constant endowment. The County of Tippecanoe proposes fifty thousand dollars. Then, in case the College is located at the Battleground, there are some school buildings offered there, valued at twenty thousand dollars; then there is the Mehary farm, offered only upon the condition that the College is located on the Shawnee Mound. Consequently, we have but this reliacle proposition before the House from Tippecanoe : that on the behalf of the County Commissioners, and that on behalf of Mr. Purdue-the Commissioners fifty thousand dollars, without interest, and Mr. Purdue's one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and of that no part is to be used for the purpose of erecting buildings.
Mr. BRECKINRIDGE (interrupting.) I said it was not the design that any part of it should be so used, because money for that purpose was expected from other sources.
Mr. BUSKIRK. If it is not designed by Mr. Purdue, it will not be done. And the page: 344[View Page 344] hope, that he will get some wealthy men in New York to give money to erect the College buildings, ought not to give a sufficient assurance to the House to make the location there. But if the House does not heed this hint, what will be the result of that location of the College?
Something has been said in reference to Colleges in the cities. If we locate this College in Tippecanoe County, it will be placed in the vicinity of a city of some fifteen or twenty thousand inhabitants; so that the objection of a city locality will apply directly there. And the only reliable propositions from that quarter are the fifty thousand dollars from the Commissioners and the one hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Mr. Purdue, of which no part is to be used for the purpose of erecting buildings. Where then will the buildings come from before the Congressional grant expires? The money to erect them will come out of the pockets of the people of the State. And when you and I shall come back here, two years hence, (if the Constitutional Amendment should not defeat me,) we shall have to make an appropriation for the buildings. The payments of the one hundred and fifty thousand dollars will come in in such small dribs, that it will not avail for the buildings.
Mr. BRECKINRIDGE (interposing, and Mr. Buskirk giving way.) I said that I would make a statement of Mr. Purdue's mind, or of his opinion. I am not authorized to say that none of this money will be used for the erection of buildings.' I said it would not be used in purchasing grounds.
Mr. BUSKIRK (resuming.) The House can see the uncertainty of the proposition. Then further; the proposition is not in shape, unless Mr. Purdue sees proper to carry it out in good faith. If he sees proper and if he entertains the views expressed by the gentleman from Tippecanoe, [Mr. Breckinridge,] he can refuse to erect the buildings.
There is another objectionable feature in connection with this proposition coming from Tippecanoe County and that is this: That this magnificent fund, that has been given by the Congress of the United States for the purpose of puting into operation our great State Agricultural College must be used so as to perpetuate the name of John Purdue-that it shall be called the Purdue College. If he desires to perpetuate his name in connection with some institution of learning, let him endow it wholly himself, and not look to the United States. In twenty-five years it will never be thought of that the United States made this munificient contribution of land for this school.
Mr. PIERCE of Porter, (interposing.) Was not the same thing done in New York?
Mr. BUSKIRK. It was under different circumstances. Mr. Cornell gave a million and a half of dollars.
Mr. PIERCE of Porter. The gentleman is mistaken. The Cornell donation was five hundred thousand dollars.
Mr. BUSKIRK. I may be mistaken as to the amount. I have nothing to say in reference to the location of this College in the northern part of the State. But my proposition is to place it with the Indiana University. The gentleman from Franklin, [Mr. Cory] says that would be to make it the tail of another Institution. We do not propose that. We propose to make it the head rather The Agricultural department will be of equal importance with all the other schools. But that matter, of course, will be carried out according to law. We are already establishing in the Indiana University, a department of military science; and it only remains for this fund to establish a department of Agriculture and the mechanic arts. I say, Mr. Speaker that, in a University proper, one department or school is of just as much consequence as another. They are all alike. Consequently the school of Agriculture and the mechanic arts could not be made subservient to the interests of the State University.
Mr. DAVIS of Floyd, (interposing.) Suppose I desire to educate my son as a farmer, he could be educated at Bloomington, as the law now is, except that he could not be taught farming there, by experience. Then, if we locate this College at another place, and I desire to have him educated thoroughly as a farmer, I would have to send him to another College.
Mr. BUSKIRK. That would be my inference.-I wish now to refer to the offer of Putnam County. The gentleman [Mr. Neff] complained that I said last night that Putnam County is not in the ring. But the gentleman will remember that I said that-if I used that expression-it was because the gentleman from Putnam and Hendricks [Mr. Osborn] did not insert Putnam County in lieu of "Monroe and Blooomington," which he proposed to strike out of the bill.
Mr. OSBORN (interposing.) Putnam county has been in the ring all the time; and her paper ought to have been before the House all the time.
Mr. BUSKIRK. I do not say that is not so. But let us see what they offer. It is to give one hundred thousand dollars in ten years, or to pay it sooner if the County see proper; and to give forty acres of land. What would that amount to? One hundred thousand dollars in ten years would not enable the Board of Trustees to erect the buildings. And how would the buildings be provided for, unless we were to locate the college in connection with the Asbury University?
Mr. OSBORN (interposing.) I hope the gentleman does not intend to misrepresent this page: 345[View Page 345] paper. Putnam County proposes county bonds for one hundred thousand dollars, payable in years and drawing ten per cent interest-to become the property of the College.
Mr. BUSKIRK. As I read the proposition they offer one hundred thousand dollars in ten years - not due till the end of ten years.
Mr. NEFF (interposing.) Are not the Monroe County bonds to be made payable in ten years?
Mr. BUSKIRK. No sir.-payable in five rears with interest from date.
The SPEAKER pro tem. (Mr. Johnston of Parke in the Chair.) Due in ten years, the county reserving the right to pay them sooner if they so elect. They are payable ten years after they become due.
Mr. OSBORN. The Putnam County one hundred thousand dollars are to be due in one year.
Mr. BUSKIRK resuming. The Indianapolis proposition is to give what? To give the Northwestern Christian University? I would like to know if the Trustees of the Northwestern will surrender their buildings? Or is it that the Agricultural College may have the privilege to occupy their buildings, and to be crowded out at their pleasure? Then the Fletcher heirs propose to give something. No doubt they are honorable men; but why do they not come in and put their proposition in such shape, as will make it an obligation with forfeiture, if they intend to carry it out? But there is an objection to locating this Institution in or near the city of Indianapolis or any other city. We all know the temptations to which youth is exposed in a large city. Where is the gentleman, having a boy of ten or fifteen years who would wish to send him here to Indianapolis, and expose him to the contaminating vices of the city? It is bad enough in a small town like Bloomington. But a boy of fifteen or sixteen years turned loose in a city-what could benected of him at twenty-one? If there was other objections to Indianapolis, this alone, with me, would be insuperable.
Now Mr. Speaker, I wish to refer briefly, to the proposition from Monroe County. It is to give the University buildings, the laboratory, the library and the museum, valued at one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The University fund, of one hundred thousand dollars; the University land valued at fifty thousand dollars, and the County donation of fifty thousand dollars-four hundred and fifty thousand dollars in all.
The bill provides, that if the College is lofted at Bloomington, it shall be under the joint control of the Trustees of the State University and the Trustees of the Agricultural College; that they shall have the joint control of the buildings and the grounds, and of the whole thing; and that the act of Congress shall be carried out in good faith.
Mr. GREEN. Mr. Speaker: As a Representative from the southern part of the State, I respectfully ask the House, that I may be heard for a few moments upon this question.
On the motion of Mr. COFFROTH, it was ordered by unanimous consent, that Mr. Green be allowed to speak ten minutes.
Mr. GREEN. Mr. Speaker: I would not attempt to make any discussion of this question, if any other gentleman from our part of the State would do so. But I will be brief. It is my belief sir, that we should not allow the consideration of dollars and cents to control us so much in this matter. And I cannot but deprecate these constant appeals of gentlemen against spending money. In endeavoring to locate this College, with me, it becomes necessary, as an element of action, that we should spend money; and we should do it liberally. Local interests should not control.
This grant of Congress was conceived in the interests of the laboring classes. And if the College is located in any other interest; the location would be violative of the spirit of the act of Congress. I have compared the Agricultural reports from twelve States of the Union. [Here Mr. G. spoke rapidly, giving various statistical statements in figures derived from these reports. Many of these States he said, have experimental farms connected with these Agricultural Institutions and he would be ready to vote liberal appropriations to this Agricultural College, located in any part of the State, where the interests of the industries of the State would be subserved and the design of the act of Congress would be carried out. But he would not be willing to see it connected with any other literary or scientific Institution, because that would be to disconnect and take it away from the experimental farm.
He answered the objection, that many students would give their preference to the literary Institutions; by reference to the said Agricultural reports, wherein it was shown, that the course of instruction in those Agricultural Institutions was sufficiently thorough.]
The House then proceeded to ballot for the location of the Indiana Agricultural College, conformably to the order embraced in Mr. Dunh's resolution-Mr. Stewart of Ohio, Mr. Stephenson, Mr. Chittenden, and Mr. Tebbs, acting as tellers.
FIRST BALLOT
The Tellers reported 90 votes cast as follows:
- Bloomington received 29 ballots.
- Indianapolis received 14 ballots.
- Hancock County received 13 ballots.
- Tippecanoe County received 29 ballots.
- Greencastle received 3 ballots.
- Franklin, Johnson County, received 1 ballot.
- Clarksville received 1 ballot.
SECOND BALLOT.
The Tellers reported 90 votes cast as follows:
- Bloomington received 30 votes.
- Indianapolis recevied 12 votes.
- Hancock County received 6 votes.
- Tippecanoe County received 40 votes.
- Greencastle received 3 votes.
THIRD BALLOT.
The Tellers reported 90 votes cast, as follows:
- Bloomington received 30 votes.
- Indianapolis received 11 votes.
- Greenfield, Hancock county, received 2 votes.
- Tippecanoe County received 45 votes.
- Greencastle received 2 votes.
After an ineffectual motion to adjourn House proceeded to take the
FOURTH BALLOT.
The Tellers reported 88 votes cast, as follows:
- Bloomington received 17 votes.
- Indianapolis received 8 votes.
- Greenfield received 1 vote.
- Tippecanoe County received 52 votes.
The fourth ballot resulting in the location of the College on the part of the House of Representatives in the County of Tippecanoe.
The House then adjourned.
