SUPPLEMENTARY
TO
BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS.
VOLUME ELEVENTH.
ORGANIZATION OF THE SENATE---DEBATE
IN CONTINUATION.
IN SENATE.
MONDAY, April 12, 1869[CONTINUED FROM THE FOOT OF PAGE 36.]
Mr. WOLCOTT (in conclusion.) I shall advert once more to this section eleven of the Constitution: "Two thirds of each House shall constitute a quorum to do business ;"-which, of course, cannot mean two thirds of the members elected, because abstract members do not constitute a House. The House is composed of members of the body. In Congress, when, by resignation or other causes, number is reduced, the two thirds is construed to mean two thirds of the actual members. And, in the provision which points out the way to make up a quorum when there is no quorum present, the Constitution provides that we shall send for absentees. It does not provide for holding elections.
Mr. BRADLEY (interposing.) Suppose on were sworn in, would ten make a majority of members of the House?
Mr. WOLCOTT. Any general proposition can be pushed to an extreme. The great purpose of our Constitution is to provide a representative government; and, when the number of representatives is reduced so small, that there ceases to be a representation. I think it proper to proceed-
Mr. BRADLEY (interrupting,) Not until the Senator answers me as to whether the Senators sworn in constitute the Senate? Suppose eighteen were sworn in, would not ten be a quorum to pass a bill?
Mr. WOLCOTT. I have answered the Senator two or three times already; and, if he does not understand, the fault is not mine.
Mr. BRADLEY (in his seat.) Answer the question directly.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I do not recall the course I intended to pursue; and, as I do not wish to keep others waiting, I will yield the floor.
Mr. ROBINSON of Decatur. What is the is the gentleman's motion?
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The Senator from White [Mr. Wolcott] will please reduce his motion to writing, and then we will see what it is.
Mr. HOOPER. I would simply inquire whether my resolution has lost its place?
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The Senator from White made a motion after the resolution was withdrawn, and then gave way to the Senator from Whitley ]Mr. Hooper] for the introduction of the resolution again. When the Senator from White sends up his motion, we will dispose of that, and then the resolution will come up.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I suppose it is competent for me to give place to the resolution, and let it be disposed of.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. That should be disposed of I suppose.
Mr. WOLCOTT. I will withdraw my resolution for the time being.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The resolutions of the Senator from Whitley are before the Senate at this time.
Mr. HOOPER. Mr. President, I do not propose to enter into any discussion of the question presented by this resolution to any extent whatever, because I submitted my views upon the question on Saturday. But it has been suggested by the Senator from Laporte, [Mr. Bradley,] that this matter ought not now to be pressed ; but that we ought to wait patiently. How long he would have us to wait he does not tell us-for the good reason, I suppose, that he does not know himself.
Mr. BRADLEY (is his seat.) Just so.
Mr. HOOPER. I think we have waited patiently long enough; and that the time has come when it is our duty to determine upon some policy and upon some course of action.
Mr. BrADLEY (interposing, and Mr. H. giving way.) If the Senator will allow me I do no know exactly how long we will have to wait: but I stated that I thought a resolution like this was impolitic, I have received in page: 270[View Page 270]formation that the House is organized; and, I suppose, if that is done, that the Senate will be organized: and I really hope the Senate will take no action upon this resolution. I do not mean the Senate. I mean this fraction of a Senate. I thought it impolitic to act in this way, lest it might destroy the whole object of the orgaization of the House. Because if this body passes a resolution declaring the seats of certain Senators vacant, (which I contend it has no right to do,) the Governor may act upon it;-I don't believe he will, but possibly he may;-and, if he does, we destroy the General Assembly for the present. Hence, I hope the Senator will not press his resolution.
Mr. GREEN. I will ask if the Senator don't think this the most speedy way we can organize the Senate?
Mr. BRADLEY. I think not, I think you will never organize in that way.
Mr. HOOPER (resuming.) I do not desire to discuss that branch of the subject today, because, as I have already stated, I presented my view of that question on Saturday. I have no doubt as to the practicability of this mode of organizing the Senate-none whatever. While it may be true, that the House is organized, that does not by any means perfect the organization of the General Assembly. For all practical purposes, we are to-day-as we now stand,just as effectually disorganized as we were on Saturday. And now what assurance is the Senator able to give us, that we should further delay in adopting our line of policy? Nothing, it seems to me, that we ought to rely upon. I think we ought to proceed straight forward in the discharge of our duty, or of what we conceive to be our duty; and that is, to adopt a resolution of the character that I have introduced. I have introduced this resolution for the purpose of enabling us to determine the policy it is best to pursue. I shall not insist upon pressing a vote on it now. For I suppose it is a matter of such importance, that it will necessarily involve some discussion ; because it is a somewhat unusual state of affairs that now surround us. It is for the purpose of presenting this matter-that we may at once determine upon the line of action to take-that I offer this resolution ; and, if it provokes discussion, now is the time for that discussion, that we may fix upon the course we are to adopt, And I feel no disposition to withdraw the resolution, or to take any step that would look like further delay, because I think the time for action has come. There is nothing new in the situation that requires further delay. It is notorious, and it has been for five days past, that the members elect are in the city and can come in at any moment and qualify; and allow me to say to the Senator from Laporte, (Mr. Bradley) that the most effectual way he can prevent the adoption of the resolution or something of this character, is for our friends of the minocity to come in and qualify, and take their seats; and that will dispose of this resolution. They are here now in the other end of the capitol, and I suppose perhaps, some are in the lobbies of this chamber, and if they wish to prevent any such action now is the time to come in and prevent it by doing that which is their duty.
I said there was nothing new in the situation. What I mean by that is, that there is nothing now that should induce the minority to come in and take their ssats that would press upon them with any more consideration or any more force than at the very first day of the session. It has been understood from the first day we assembled that there were members both of the House and the Senate of the majority in sufficient numbers to control this matter with the aid of the minority, who were determined and intended that the appropriation bills should all be passed and the necessary legislation should be enacted before the Fifteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States shall be taken up. That was distinctly understood-there conld be no mistake about this question but it was squarely stated that the majority were not going to make any pledges-they were not going to stand by and plead for an organization of this General Assembly by making pledges as to what kind of business would be done after the organization. It would be a surrender of the principle that the majority should rule, to hand over the direction of our business into the hands of the minority. For that very reason no pledge of that kind could be made. We, as independent members of the General Assembly could not consistently make any such pledge without surrendering our right as the majority to govern. It is equally true that this other proposition has been well understood, and there could have been no question, if the members of both Houses had come in and organized, that this constitutional amendment question would not have been taken up until the other important measures of the session had been passed upon. Therefore I say there is nothing new in the situation that should induce us to delay. If possible, the influences are the other way. I understand that the written pledge given by some members has been withdrawn, and therefore there is nothing new in the situation that should induce us to think that anything could be gained by delay. Therefore I insist, that we should to-day, determine upon the policy we should adopt; for it seems to be determined that either this policy shall be adopted or the other that has been indicated, namely : that we shall go on and legislate with the members we have. I think the resolution is a proper one, but I will not stop to discuss the general question, if the Senate does not desire to press a vote to-day but prefer to discuss the question, I shall not press the vote myself.
page: 271[View Page 271]Mr. President, I am happy to hear the Senator from Whitley [Mr. Hooper] for whom I have the highest respect, make the remark that he offered this resolution for the purpose of eliciting discussion, and that he did not desire to have it passed to-day.
Mr. HOOPER (interposed.) I said I would not press the vote to-day.
Mr. BRADLEY. I am placed in an embarrassing situation here. I have to discuss this matter against some thirty senators -
Mr. FISHER (in his seat) only twenty-eight.
Mr. BRADLEY (continuing:) and they would probably defeat me in the discussion. I am aware there is nothing new in the situation except this one fact, and it may not be improper for me to state it, although I have the highest respect for the presiding officer. At the commencement of our session on a Saturday, the presiding officer decided that a resolution like this was not in order. I say this without meaning an disrespect to the presiding officer, but simply because I think it was an error.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The Senator misunderstood the intention as well as the position of the presiding officer. The resolution offered by the Senator from Vigo [Mr. Scott] at the commencement of the session is very different from the one offered this afternoon.
Mr. BRADLEY. The resolution I refer to was offered by the Senator from Tipton ]Mr. Green.]
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. Will the Senator read the resolution.
Mr. BRADLEY. Yes, sir."
RESOLVED, That the Secretary of State be requested to lay before this body, as soon as he can conveniently, a certified statement of the returns for the election of Senators in the districts declared vacant by resignation at the close of the last session of the General Assembly."
Mr. BRADLEY. Mr. President, I rise the point of order. There is nobody hereto pass a resolution,"
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The point of order is sustained. No resolution can be passed and certified to unless there be two-thirds of the Senate present."
Then the Senator from Jefferson offered the following resolution:
RESOLVED, That the Secretary of State be and he :s hereby requested to lay before this body whatever information may be on file in his office in respect to the special election, held on the 23d day of March, 1809, to supply the vacancies in the General Assembly, occasioned by the resignation of the members thereof, on the 4th day of March, 1869, with a view of taking the necessary steps to compel the attendance of absent members.
And I took the position then and there, that we could not make members by calling upon the Secretary of State, no matter what he said, he could not make a member. No man can become a member until he comes with the proper credentials and qualifies by taking the oath of office. Hence no matter what information can be got from the Secretary of State we cannot by that information compel the attendance of absent members. I took the ground then as I do now, that the last clause of that resolution amounts to nothing.
Mr. CRAVENS (interposing.) I desire to explain in behalf of the presiding officer. At the time the presiding officer decided the resolution of the Senator from Tipton [Mr. Green] to be out of order, and at the time the Chair decided the resolution of the Senator from Vigo [Mr. Scott] to be out of order, I understood the Chair to hold that any resolution or any step that looked to a compliance with the power granted us under the Constitution to compel the attendance of absent members, would be held as valid and in order by the Chair. When I introduced my resolution, as I stated in the last clause, it was with a view of taking the necessary steps to compel the attendance of absent members. What were the necessary steps?
Mr. BRADLEY. I cannot give way to the Senator for an argument.
Mr. CHURCH (interposing.) I will state that the contemplated action of the House has been had and the recreant Senators have been sent for.
Mr. BELLAMY. I call the Senator to order. He has no right to refer to what is going on in the other end of the Capitol.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The opinion I gave on the point of order referred to by the Senator from Laporte (Mr. Bradley) is not published in the JOURNAL, but it is published in the SENTINEL which he sent to Mr. Bradley. It is as follows:
"The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. As far as the resolution before the Senate now is concerned, the Chair will state that on the first day of the session, when the Senator from Vigo [Mr. Scot]t offered a resolution, I said that any resolution might be passed in the opinion of the Chair, that looked towards enforcement of our rights under the Constitution; that is, the right to compel the attendance of absent members. The Chair thought the resolution offered by the Senator from Vigo was not that sort of a resolution. The Chair is of the same opinion a,s to the resolution offered by the Senator from Tipton [Mr. Green.] The resolution now under consideration [Mr. Craven's] proposes to obtain information for the purpose of bringing about the result desired, to-wit: the organization of the Senate. The Chair is unable to see that the passage of the resolution would accomplish the result claimed, but the Chair will not undertake to prejudge. The effect that the passage of this resolution would have is the attainment of the constitutional end in view, and as it claims on its face to be for that purpose, the Chair with a desire to enforce the Constitutional rule empowering the body to compel the attendance of absent members, will page: 272[View Page 272] entertain the resolution. Admitting that there is doubt as to its propriety, the Senate being fully competent to determine whether it will accomplish the end it seeks, the Chair will hold the resolution in order, and leave the responsibility with the Senate."
Mr. BRADLEY. I think the Sentinel is the best paper-a good deal.
Mr. CRAVENS. The Chair knew that and therefore sent it to the Senator.
Mr. BRADLEY. The Senator from Jefferson, [Mr. Cravens,] in his resolution, declares what was his view in offering it. But I regard that as of no consequence whatever. The question is simply this: What would be the effect of the resolution ? Now, for what purpose could we call upon the Secretary of State? What object could we have in view, except to receive information as to what election returns were filed in his office ?
Mr. CRAVENS (in his seat.) That is what we want.
Mr. BRADLEY. That is all. And the same purpose would be effected by the resolution of the Senator from Tipton [Mr. Green.] I insist that it is not necessary to insert in a resolution what view the author had in offering it; and that is the only difference between the two resolutions. The Senator from Tipton simply offered his resolution to call for that information. When the Senate got that information, they could act upon it in just such a way as they thought proper. The Senator from Jefferson offered the same resolution,and in addition, added, that it was offered with a certain view. Now the view makes no difference-none in the least-with the question. The whole scope, intent and purport of the resolution being to get from the Secretary the information as to what returns were filed in his office. We would get that information by one just as well as by the other ; and when we had the information we could use it for any purpose we choose.
I also desire to answer the Senator from Whitley [Mr. Hooper ;] but perhaps I need not-from the information they have received. I am aware, that whenever a resolution is offered here, and the presiding officer rules it in order, it can be passed-I don't care what it is. There are twenty eight Senators on one side to vote for any such resolution-and but two, or three,or four-there are four now on the other. It is useless for us to sit here and battle the resolution. We can only protest against it. That was my purpose-simply to offer my solemn protest against it. That is all we can do. It is of no use to discuss the question. Our arguments amount to nothing against the majority here.
Mr. SCOTT. I move to postpone the further consideration of the resolution till tomorrow at two o'clock.
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. WOLCOTT. The motiun which I offered a while ago and withdrew, I now offer in the shape of a resolution, and I move make that also the special order for 2 o'clock to-morrow.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR It will be read for information.
The Secretary read as follows:
RESOLVED, That inasmuch as there is a quorum of all the members that are qualified under the Constitution present the President be and he is hereby directed to proceed with the business of the Senate as the same now stands upon the Calendar.
Mr. BRADLEY. I object to that; and I raise the point of order-
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. I think the resolution is not in order.
Mr. SCOTT. I move that the districts be called where vacancies exist, and also the names of the Senators elect.
Mr. BRADLEY. They will be here in few minutes.-They are not here yet.-I have sent for them. [Laughter.]
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. Does the Senator withdraw his motion?
Mr. SCOTT. Yes sir.
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I move that we have a recess for fifteen minutes.
The motion was rejected.
* * * *
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The Secretary will now call the Districts, with the names of the Senetors reported as elected therefrom.
Mr. BRADLEY. I request that the call may be suspended for a short time, when they will all be here.
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. Certainly, sir.
Mr. RICE. I move that the Sergeant-at-arms be instructed to act in concert with the detachment sent out by the Senator from Laporte, in bringing them in. (Laughter.)
Mr. TAGGART. He has three Aids-he may do without the assistance of the Sergeant at Arms.
Subsequently-the Senators elect appearing in the Chamber-
The LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. The Secretary will now call the Districts, with the names of the Senators said to be elected from those Districts; and Senators will come forward and present their credentials when their names are called.
And, accordingly, as their names were called, the newly elected Senators came forward to the area in front of the President's Desk, submitted their Credentials and took the oath of office as Senators at the hand of Judge Chapman, of the Marion Crimininal Circuit Court, in the following words: "You and each of you do solemnly Swear to support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Indiana, and page: 273[View Page 273] best of your ability discharge your duty as Senators in the General Assembly of the State of Indiana. So help you God."
So the Senate of the Forty Sixth General Indiana determined a Constitutional Quorum, by the qualification of Senators elected in March, namely:
- From Vanderbgh.District . . . Danl.Morgan.
- Knox and Daviess..............W. S. Turner.
- Pike, Dubois & Martin.....W.H.Montgomery
- Perry, Orange, Crawford.......W. F. Sherrod.
- Wasington & Harrison......George W. Denbo,
- Ohio and Dearborn.............Elijah Huffman.
- Franklin......................Thomas Gifford.
- Green and Owen................John Humphreys.
- Clay and Sullivan.............James M. Hanna.
- Montgomery....................Archibald Johnson
- Huntington and Wells..........Wilson Smith.
-Messrs. Bird of Allen, Howk of Floyd and Lasselle of Cass being yet absent.
