BREVIER LEGISLATIVE REPORTS.
TENTH VOLUME.
INDIANA LEGISLATURE.
IN SENATE.
FRIDAY, January 15, 1869.The Senate met at two o'clock p. m., agreeable to adjournment the Lieutenant Governor in the chair.
Mr. HUGHES entered a motion to reconsider the vote whereby the Senate concurred in the report of the select committee to refer the various portions of the message of the Governor to appropriate committees. He desired the matter should be carefully looked into. He would call the matter up at the pleasure of the Senate.
PETITIONS.
Mr. STEIN presented a petition from Lafayette, protesting against the repeal of the gravel, plank and McAdamized road law, taxing property within one-half mile of the roads.
It was referred to the Committee on Roads.
Mr. GRAY presented a petition for the passage of a law erecting prisons for women.
It was referred to the Committee on Prisons.
Mr. CAVEN presented the claim of James Blake, for services as Commissioner on account of the Gettysburg Cemetery, for two hundred and fifty dollars.
It was referred to the Committee on Claims.
THE SEVENTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT.
Mr. ROBINSON of Madison, from the select Committee on bill [S. 32] fixing the times of holding courts in the 17th Judicial Circuit, reported a recommendation for its passage. He moved for a suspension of the rules that the bill may be passed now.
Mr. HUGHES moved to refer the bill to the Committee on the Judiciary. He wanted to see business conducted in a proper manner. Matters referring to the Judiciary should go to the Judiciary Committee. He would object to irregular legislation while in his place from now to the end of the session.
Mr. ROBINSON, of Madison, did not understand the motive of the Senator from Monroe in his motion. The bill affected only the interests of a few counties, and it had been referred to and examined by a special committtee.
Mr. HUGHES' reason for his motion was to prevent hasty legislation. He wanted all bills to go to and come from the appropriate standing Committees. The Senate was now page: 108[View Page 108] properly organized, and he did not desire to see special committees raised on bills, and measures hurried through without proper consideration. For one, he would vote from now till the end of the session to prevent hasty and imperfect legislation. The Judiciary Committee can examine the bill at once if necessary. He should only vote for the suspension of the usual order of business in exception cases, and when the reason was made clear to the Senate.
Mr. ROBINSON, of Madison, again explained the reason why the passage of the bill was asked.
Mr. GREEN stated that the bill had been examined by the Senators interested, and reported back for passage. It merely changed the time of courts in one circuit, so as to accommodate a local interest. The business of the Courts were increasing, and it became necessary to know as soon as possible, when the terms of the court would commence. If referred to the Judiciary Committee, it is probable that they will merely report it back for passage.
Mr. HUGHES withdrew his objection.
Mr. ROBINSON, of Madison, moved that the rules be suspended so as to place the bill on its passage.
The rules were suspended--yeas 41; nays 3, the bill read the third time and finally passed the Senate by yeas, 45; nays 0.
Mr. ARMSTRONG offered a resolution which was adopted, authorizing the appointment of a Committee of three on mileage and accounts.
The PRESIDENT appointed Messrs. Armstrong, Elliot and Huey said Committee.
Mr. BELLAMY offered a resolution allowing the officers $3 worth of stamps, and the President of the Senate $6 worth.
Mr. BELLAMY explained that this was customary, but when the resolution allowing stamps to Senators was passed a few days ago these officers were omitted inadvertently.
Mr. HUGHES moved to strike out all except the allowance to the President.
Mr. CHURCH stated that the President was provided for.
Mr. HUGHES withdrew his motion, and called for a reading of the resolution.
The Secretary read the resolution, which allows each Senator three dollars worth of stamps.
The PRESIDENT put the question and decided that the resolution was lost.
Mr. STEIN called for a division.
The PRESIDENT declared the call came too late, he having decided that the resolution was rejected before the demand for a division was made. That question had been disposed of at the last session, the Senate then deciding on an appeal, that after the Chair had decided a question, it was too late for a call for a division.
Mr. STEIN appealed from the decision, merely for the purpose of establishing a precedent. At the last session several Senators who had voted to sustain the Chair, afterward acknowledged their error; among them, Judge Niles of Laporte. Mr. Stein directed attention to the 41st Rule, in Jefferson's Manual.
The PRESIDENT stated that he had not looked at the section since the last session, but now if the Senator would withdraw his appeal, the decision would be reversed, and the call for a division entertained.
Mr. STEIN did so.
No quorum voting upon a division.
Mr. STEIN demanded a call of the Senate.
Some forty-five Senators answering to the names.
On motion, by Mr. CRAVENS, further proceedings under the call were dispensed with.
The resolution was then adopted without a division.
CONTESTED ELECTION CASE.
Mr. JOHNSTON of Montgomery offered a resolution that the Judiciary Committee, having charge of the petition of W.H. Montgomery, contesting the seat of Seat of Senator Houghton, be requested to examine the papers in the case at an early day and report thereon. He offered the resolution, not as censuring the Committee, but as a reminder to the Committee that the contester was still here awaiting action on his case.
The resolution was adopted.
Mr. KINLEY offered a concurrent resolution, which was adopted, that Charles F. Coffin, of Richmond, Indiana, and Z.V. Brockway of Detroit, Michigan, be requested to address the Legislature on the subject of prison reforms at an early day.
THE BAKER-CUMBACK CORRESPONDENCE.
Mr. ROBINSON, of Madison, being in the Chair--
On motion by Mr. STEIN, the Senate resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. Bellamy in the Chair in the Chair, for the consideration of the Baker-Cumback correspondence.
The CHAIRMAN stated the question to be on the adoption of the pending amendment to the second resolution.
Mr. FISHER moved to amend the amendment by striking out the words "corrupt and indecent," and inserting in lieu the word "improper."
Mr. STEIN. I rise to a point of order. That is the motion already voted down.
Mr. FISHER. The Senator is mistaken. The first was a motion to strike out; this is a motion to strike out and insert. The Secretary did not complete the reading of it.
page: 109[View Page 109]The Secretary read the motion as written.
Mr. FISHER. I am not disposed to spend any time discussing the matter, but after a cool and calm consideration of the matter during the night, I have come to the conclusion that it would be right to change words as indicated. I trust the opponents of the resolution will regard that as satisfactory. I will submit the amendment without argument.
Mr. WOOD proposed to further amend by a resolution that the Committee rise and re port to the Senate a recommendation that the subject matter under consideration be indefinitely postponed.
Mr. HUGHES. I desire to make some remarks upon this proposition, but first will inquire of the Chair whether these amendments are in order. After the chair has decided this question I desire to submit some remarks.
Mr. FISHER had the impression that amendments were in order.
The CHAIRMAN decided Mr. Wood's amendment out of order.
Mr. GRAY proposed to offer another amendment to the amendment, but the Chair decided it out of order.
Mr. HUGHES proceeded to review and discuss, in a speech of about two hours' length, the Cumback-Baker correspondence and its developments since this subject was brought before the Senate, insisting that the body can have no more important business before it than the settlement of this question, and that the time spent in deciding upon the simple proposition to which it is reduceable is time as well spent as it could possibly be by this Legislature or this Senate.
[This speech will be found printed as an appendix to this volume.]
When Mr. Hughes had concluded--
The amendment of Mr. Fisher was agreed to upon a division--affirmative 27, negative not counted.
Mr. GRAY. Mr. Chairman: I don't intend to inflict upon the Committee a speech. I think there has been as much talking done as had ought to be. My honorable and distinguished friend from Monroe [Mr. Hughes] has talked about latitude. I will say certainly no gentleman on this floor has taken a greater latitude than himself; to all of which, however, I make no objection; and I hope he will, and I have no doubt of it, extend to me the same courtesy in that regard that I have extended to him. I shall make my remarks short, and would not speak at all, Mr. Chairman, were it not for the fact that there has been one point made against the Lieutenant Governor, and continually pressed ever since this question has been brought into the Senate.
The point that has been attempted to be impressed upon the Senate continually is that the Lieutenant Governor could have produced the correspondence and laid it before the Senate at any time, but that he has from day to day suppressed it. Now I want to ask the Senator from Monroe, for the purpose of ascertaining whether it is possible I am mistaken in the proceeding of the Senate, upon whom did the Senate call for the correspondence?
Mr. HUGHES. I apprehend I differ from most of the gentlemen on the other side. We called upon the Governor for that correspondence. It has always been my opinion that the Governor should have sent the whole correrpondence directly to the Senate; however I appreciate the motives of delicacy that actuated him.
Mr. GRAY. Then I have a correct remembrance of the proceedings of the Senate. The Senate made a call upon the Governor for the correspondence. Two days before that call was made, the Lieutenant Governor, through the Senator from Parke, told the Senate that he had no objection to that communication being made public if the Governor desired to do so. Now I do hold that the Lieutenant Governor acted perfectly right. The Governor, notwithstanding the demand made upon him by the Senate still withheld part of the correspondence. I have no reflection to cast upon the Governor, but I am not willing to sit here and see the Lieutenant Governor reflected upon for any point of delicacy that the Governor exercised. The Lieutenant Governor was unwilling to break the seal of privacy and the Governor equally unwilling. The Lieutenant Governor took the privilege, that he had a right to, to make public his part of the correspondence. The Governor, upon a demand of the Senate, sent in his part. I think there is no point in that at all, although the gentleman from Monroe and other gentlemen have continually pressed that point upon the Senate, and have tried to make an impression here that the Lieutenant Governor was desiring to suppress the correspondence.
Now I never have had but one opinion in regard to this case before the Senate. I have contended from the first that it is a question over which this Senate has no jurisdiction at all. The letter written by the Lieutenant Governor to Governor Baker was dated January 6, 1868. The office the Lieutenant Governor held had expired. He was in no sense a member of the XLVIth General Assembly. Now the question is, Will the Senate take jurisdiction of a communication that took place between the Lieutenant Governor and the Governor, after the term of the office held previously by the Lieutenant Governor had expired. I then hold that the Senate has no jurisdiction of the case, and the Senate ought to have dismissed it.
And I am extremely sorry that the case before the Senate got into the snarl it did page: 110[View Page 110] yesterday afternoon. I am sorry that tne resolution introduced by the Senator from Porter did not remain as. a substitute, instead of as an amendment to the resolutions of the Senator from Tippecanoe. I admit that by parliamentary law it could not remain so, but it was the understanding of the Committee at the time that such was its relation to the amendment. Now the Senator from Monroe--and I desire to treat him with a great deal of courtesy, for I acknowledge his great ability and every thing of that kind--the Senator has declared upon this floor, in substance, that he is the candidate of those in the Republican ranks for United States Senator--
Mr. HUGHES (interposing.) The position I occupy is really this. I am ready for any combination of Democrats or Republicans that will secure the election of any good Republican over the Lieutenant Governor. I think my usefulness will be promoted by not being a candidate myself. I do not know what the Democrats propose to do; I have no treaties with them, and I don't propose to have any; but if it should happen in an open ballot that thirteen Republican Senators should vote with the Democrats and they should vote for me, then I am to be United States Senator.
Mr. GRAY. The explanation makes no difference. He holds himself ready to accept an election of that kind, and we must consider the gentleman a standing candidate. How many more there are I don't know.
Mr. HUGHES (in his seat.) There are three of us.
Mr. GRAY. Now the Senator from Monroe has a remark about the Lieutenant Governor's aspiring to office. I suppose he means to make the confession that he was manipulating members of the Republican party for the purpose of furthering his interests and aspirations. I ask the Senator is there anything wrong in it?
Mr. HUGHES. It depends upon the manner in which it is done. If it puts in jeopardy local elections it is wrong.
Mr. GRAY. The simple naked assertion without the facts, amounts to nothing. I hold that there is nothing dishonorable in aspiring to office. It is a right that every man has--I care not how humble or how ragged he is--I care not if his hands are hardened like iron by daily toil, or if he be brown as ochre from daily toil in the sunshine, he has the right to aspire to the position of United States Senator, and if his merits justify, may reach the highest position in the gift of thirty million of freemen--a position infinitely greater than the title of the Caesars in the greatest, days of the Roman empire. I claim that Will. Cumback has the right to aspire to the position of United States Senator, and I claim that he is the choice of the people of Indiana. He has secured the nomination of the Republican party inasmuch as he has received the endorsement of a majority of the Republican members of this Legislature. I am willing, if the Senator from Monroe desires to retire from the great Republican party of Indiana and support the Democrats, but I tell him that in my humble opinion he never will succeed in that operation.
The Senator from Menroe seems to think that almost everything that has been said in the course of this debate has been directed at him. Now I think that honorable Senator is mistaken. He says somebody has set the Cincinnati Gazette upon him. Could not I with just as much propriety think that somebody has set the Indianapolis Daily Sentinel upon the Lieutenant Governor? And could not I with just as much propriety think that somebody has set the Indianapolis Mirror upon the Lieutenant Governor? Is not the entire Democratic press of this State assailing the Lieutenant Governor? I do not say that anybody I has induced the Democratic papers to do it, but the honorable Senator from Monroe thinks that somebody has set the Republican journals upon him. I presume that the Republican press of Indiana and Ohio have simply done as they chose in regard to this matter.
Mr. HUGHES (interposing.) A correspondent from Indianapolis has written in the interest of the Lieutenant Governor, but an Editorial, I think, is rather against the Lieutenant Governor in the Cincinnati Commercial for it says it hopes somebody would be found to beat him. [Laughter.]
Mr. GRAY. Now Mr. Chairman: the Senator from Monroe demands the passage of this resolution of censure upon the Lieutenant Governor for a further purpose. He says that if it fails to pass the Senate it will be a reflection upon the Governor. Now I cannot see it in that light; not at all. I am a friend of the Governor and I acknowledge that he is a high-toned, pure man. Why, sir, he was put into the crucible last fall in a highly excited political campaign; and, thank God, he came out unscathed. I hold the Governor of Indiana today, as Caesar would have had his wife: above suspicion. But there is no charge here made upon the Governor. No Senator upon thin floor has ever made a charge upon the Governor. No Senator has dared to reflect in my hearing, at least, upon our Governor. Then why this declaration made by the Senator from Monroe? I repeat what I said the other day: Why is this language in the Governor's reply day after day to be brought in here? What has this Senate to do with the opinion of Governor Baker? Suppose this Senate were to pass a resolution asking the Governor to furnish his opinion of himself, would that be something necessary for the consideration of list page: 111[View Page 111] Senate? Is it necessary for this Senate to consider what opinion Governor Baker has of the Lieutenant Governor?
No, Mr. Chairman, it was a political senatorial fight. I assert that the letter is in here for the purpose of throwing the force of the Governor in the scale against the prospects of the Lieutenant Governor for United States Senator. There could be no other purpose than that. Now they have got the opinion and they find, notwithstanding, that the Lieutenant Governor has received the sentence of the party--has received their nomination for the United States Senate. Now they spring another idea; that if the Senate don't censure upon the Governor. I say it can be nothing at all of the kind. The Lieutenant Governor has the confidence and respect of the Republican party ; and I say the Republican party gave the Lieutenant Governor its confidence and respect also. If there is any thing wrong about this correspondence on the part of the Lieutenant Governor, it existed at the time the Republican party nominated him last spring. He did not ask the nomination then. We demanded his services, we placed him upon the ticket and he took the position reluctantly. He took the standard of the party--that good emblem of liberty and freedom, and carried it with pride, placing it higher upon the battlements of liberty than any other candidate.
If the Senator from Monroe wants to appeal and expects to succeed with a faction and the Democratic party, I repeat he will find most ignominious defeat in the attempt. I say the man that bolts that nomination will dig his political grave so deep that the long, loud blasts of Gabriel trumpet will fail to reach the dark, deep pit which will be his political grave. [Applause.]
Now I have said about all I am going to say. There are a great many things I would like to say before I shall take my seat. Gentlemen there is but one question before you--thought I hold the opinion that the Senate has no jurisdiction over this matter,--and that question is: whether you will strike down the Republican party with this gallant standard bearer, with its glorious recollections of the past and the bright anticipations which clint around it in the future, or whether you will bolt from that party. No Republican within these walls can name an instance where a politician was ever elected to office by votes of the opposition, whoever remained true to the party. I say the Republican, be he who he may, that takes the office of United States Senator by the votes of the Democratic party will put himself so much under obligations to that party that he will be bound to serve them, and I make the prediction that he will serve them.
VOICES--"Chas Sumner;" "Chase;" "Grant."
Mr. GRAY. I make the assertion, and the history of political parties forever will bear bear me out in the truth of the assertion, that the man who takes office by the votes of an opposite party, puts himself under oblications to that party, and as a true man he must do more or less for the party that elects him. I think the time of the Senate has been sufficiently taken up.
Mr. HANNA. Mr. Chairman: I desire to say for myself, as a Democrat that all these allusions to any bargains with any faction of the Republican party, are, at least premature. So far as any combination may be anticipated, that is merely mere anticipation; and as an individual, I speak for myself, I am opposed to any such combination. I believe, alter the declarations that have been made here that the very happiest thing, and the thing that would operate most for the benefit of the Democratic party, would be the election of Mr. Cum back to the United States Senate. I believe it, seriously, that it would be for the parties benefit. I do not expect to vole for him, but still I believe that thing; and I have had several years experience in political ranks.
I saw an article in the newspaper which stated that Henry Clay had been kept from becoming President of the United States on account of a suspicion that he was party to a bargain of this kind. Although the United States House of Representative placed upon its journal an exculpation, there was another tribunal to be tried before, and that is the tribunal of the people--the electors, those to whom we have finally to appeal. Now the Senator from Randolph, [Mr. Gray,] appeals to the Republican party to sustain the Lieutenant Governor. I have nothing to say about that: if they want to sustain him they can do so. As an individual I would oppose the combination to defeat him, but still I am subject to the will of the majority of the party to which I belong. But there are more ways than one in which his election would result to the benefit of the democratic party. The time may be when Democrats may approach the foot stools of power and desire office, and they will seek a channel to which they might approach with benefit to themselves. It is but a few days since the whole country resounded with the charge that seven men, called dignified and talented members of the Republican party in the Senate of the United States, had been corruptly bought up to vote upon an important measure. The man who would propose a corrupt bargain is himself subject to it. Does the Legislature of Indiana desire to send men to the Senate of the United States who are corrupt?
There are more ways than one that his election will benefit the Democratic party; and page: 112[View Page 112] therefore I am, as an individual opposed to any combination that will defeat him; but I am subject all the time to the control of a majority of my party. It cannot be denied that the Democrats will do the thing the Republicans have done;we will have a caucus and come to some conclusion, and you will be advised in due time what that result is. We represent within a very fine fraction of an equal number of the people of Indiana that are represented by the other side of this House, and some of our men are vain enough to think that we represent a majority of the people of the State. We represent the people and entitled to be heard and stand upon an equality here with any other Senator, and our voice, as far as it goes has a weight. And I suppose representing as we do half of the people of the State, it is no disgrace for any candidate to receive our vote.
Mr. GRAY (interposing.) On two or three occasions you have expressed the desire that the Republican party should elect the Lieutenant Governor. Now, say the Democratic party has it in their power to elect, if you prefer Col. Cumback to any other Republican I hope you will not vote for any other.
Mr. HANNA. Don't the gentleman see at once that whenever we vote for him we take a portion of his sins upon our shoulders? Now if we vote for Mr. Cumback we would be endorsing him and the thing he did.
Mr. GRAY (interposing.) All you have got to do is to refuse to vote for any Republican and we will vote for Mr. Cumback.
Mr. HANNA. That is very thing we have to consult about.
Mr. HUGHES (interposing.) I merely wish to state that I am sincerely of the opinion, if the Democratic party would unanimously be kind enough to vote for any Republican, and the Republicans should vote for Mr. Cumback, a good deal of moss would grow over the rocks and trees in this neighborhood before anybody would be elected at all.
Mr. HANNA. That would be bad because nobody would get the salary.
Mr. GRAY. We can poll seventy-six votes for Cumback.
Mr. HANNA. That is a family quarrel.
The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen will confine themselves to what is before the Committee.
Mr. HANNA. We will come within about gun shot of it. This matter has arrived at that shape that we believe you can't get out of it in any way that will not redound to the benefit of the Democratic party. But I will tell an anecdote that will apply to gentlemen who are so exceedingly excited. There are some persons in this world exceedingly benevolent, and one of these hunting up children to go to sabbath school, (I mean no reference to the Lieutenant Governor,) took one little fellow with an exceedingly dirty face and set him down among others devilishly inclined, Directly his teacher asked him: "Who made you my son?" Just then a boy behind stuck him with a pin and says he "God." [Laughter.] Now said his teacher to the class: "I have been a long time trying to learn you this, and some of you have not be able to answer, but this answer is correct. Your answer was correct my little son, but you must not get excited.""Now," says she, "who is the Savior of all mankind? " His persecutor again stuck him with a pin and he said "Jesus Christ." Then she gave another lecture to the claps on the'correctness of the answer, and again charged the little boy not to get so excited. She then asked him another question. Says she "What is the doom of those who disobey God?" Just then the boy sitting behind him again stuck him with a pin and says he "Hell and damnation." [Renewed laughter.]
Now, Mr. Chairman, our friends on the other side have exhibited a great deal of excitement all the time during the progress of this debate, and some of them have given a great many answers right, but they get so excited over it. Evidently the Lieutenant Governor is a little excited himself. He saw that he had got into the wrong and tried to get out. If I get into good company I like to stay there, but if I get into wrong company I like to get out. This proceeding is one that the country must condemn. There may be a different code of morals in the Republican party, but I admonish gentlemen who say the Republican party endorse this thing, that they have not much margin in Indiana and they had better go slow. An attempt to endorse too many things is what broke down the Democratic party. It appears to me the Republican party now has endorsed about as much as they can carry.
Mr. HOOPER. Mr. Chairman: I desire to say a word in explanation of my vote. I shall vote for the amendment to this resolution, not because I desire to evade the question, but simply for the purpose of putting this in a shape for preserving, if possible, the harmony and good feeling of the party upon this question. Now my own convictions are such that I feel it to be my duty to express my disapproval of such a proposition as that contained in the letter of the Lieutenant Governor. If the resolution will enable me to do that it accomplishes all I desire. The Senate will observe that the resolution now, in the form in which it is placed, expresses, in perhaps as mild terms as we can use and do it intelligently, the disapproval of the Senate of the proposition contained in the letter of the Lieutenant Governor to the Executive of the State. For the resolution in that shape I desire to vote; and in- page: 113[View Page 113] deed I may say--truthfully, that under my convictions of duty I cannot do otherwise if an opportunity is presented for me to.
It has been said to us in the discussion of this question that to vote for this resolution is to disrupt and destroy the Republican party. I feel the necessity of maintaining the unity of the Republican party as much as any member of that party, and while I recognize the necessity of doing it I believe the only way in which it can be done permanently is to preserve the purity and integrity of that party. Here is a proposition that I cannot approve, and I believe it is our duty now, under the circumstances, to meet it fairly, as suggested by the Senator from Monroe [Mr. Hughes.] If we believed the conduct right and proper we should endorse it; if we believe it improper, unbecoming and imprudent in a high officer, or a man seeking the position of United States Senator, I say we should fearlessly say said as to destroying the Republican party by doing so, in my judgment the Republican Party, with its records and principles will exist and nourish in time and increase in strength and favor long after we who are here to-day are in our graves and forgotten, because I believe its principles immortal--its record glorious--and I am tired of hearing insinuations against the integrity of the Republican party, especially from sources where some of them come.
I am amazed almost at the suggestion of my friend from Sullivan [Mr. Hanna] in talking about the corruption of the Republican party. It was in consequence of the corruption of his party that the country stripped it of its power. Their interpretation of that Scripture which says "he that steals let him steal no more,"--their interpretation was "he who steals let him continue to steal." He seems to be under the impression that the party he belongs to is the same old Democratic party that at one time in its history had principles that were recognized as true. It seems to me that the principles of that party have greatly changed, and he is not aware of the fact. But I rose for the purpose of placing myself right upon this question. Under my convictions I believe it to be my duty to vote my disapproval of the sentiments contained in that letter, and when I have accomplished that purpose I have done all I conceive to be my duty. I shall therefore vote for the amendment.
Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman: I simply want to define the position of those who vote against this resolution as I understand it. We believe there is no corruption in the letter--no proposition for bargain and sale. The Senator from Monroe [Mr. Hughes] and others, think otherwise. Those of us who think there no proposition for bargain and sale vote against it. That is the whole question. If we thought there was a proposition for a bargain and sale, we might vote for the resolution, but we don't think so. Gentlemen talk like it was a question of taking a bag of gold to buy the position of United States Senator. We think there is nothing in that letter to warrant it: and we pretend to be the equal of gentlemen who think otherwise. We do not believe there is a proposition in that letter to buy an office, and that is why we vote as we do. What is the object of a vote? Does it make a man any better or any worse?
The great crime of the Lieutenant Governor is that he once proposed or suggested that it would be fair to appoint him United States Senator and if appointed he would not be a candidate for constable, (which would be very natural,) but he would canvass the State. That is the crime of his life, yet other Senators stand upon this floor and say "Oh, come unto me ye thirteen Republicans and act with this immaculate democracy that I may relieve the State of such an immoral man as Will. Cumback." Why, the old gentleman--the Senator over the way there, says the Democrats took on too big a load and broke down. We have got Will. Cumback, that is probably a heavy load: but they had Jeff. Davis, that is a heavier load. And they had Beauregard, who turned the cannon against his country; and they have got the blood of one hundred thousand men on their skirts. And they went down. What have we got?
A VOICE. "Andrew Johnson."
Mr. CHURCH. I tell the gentleman over there that he is figuring for another Andrew Johnson out of this Senate. Of all men on earth give me a man that is true to himself, to his country and to his party.
Mr. HUGHES (interposing.)
Mr. CHURCH. I am not alluding to the gentleman.
Mr. HUGHES. If you are alluding to the Senator from Montgomery his name is Archibald Johnston. [Laughter.]
Mr. JOHNSTON of Montgomery. I say unto all Republicans that are weary: Come unto me and I will give you rest. [Renewed Laughter.]
Mr. CHURCH. Yes they have been given rest--one hundred thousand of them--in their graves. Yet they undertake to excuse this rebellion--
The CHAIRMAN (interrupting.) The Chair will remind the Senator that the question before the Committee is not as to the comparative merits of the two parties.
Mr. SHERROD (interposing.) I will ask the Senator from Porter [Mr. Church] to whom he refers when he says the Democratic party placed over one hundred thousand in their graves?
page: 114[View Page 114]Mr. CHURCH. I refer to the load they took upon themselves when they undertook to excuse the work of their friends in the south. Yet they are charging us now with taking too big a load on our shoulders. Now in regard to the manner in which this question has been argued on the other side of the House, they have been working for three days to get the Governor to lay before the House a letter, and they have worked industriously. They passed one resolution and sent it to him, but the letter did not come. They then undertook to get it from the Lieutenant Governor, but they did'nt get it. They finally got the opinion of the Governor; and now, because we have got the opinion of the Governor, we are promised trouble if we sustain Will. Cumback. I say that argument is not good.
I did think of telling a story. Yes, I will, if I am asked to. Speaking about the appointment by the Governor of a United States Senator, reminds me of a negro I knew by the name of Pompey who was married to Dinah. Pompey went to his preacher and said he "Supposing I die and my wife Dinah marries another man and he dies, and my Dinah's other husband he goes to Heaven, and after while Dinah she dies and goes to Heav en, whose wife will Dinah be, mine or the other man's?" The preacher scratched his head and said: "What is dat to you? When your wife and that other fellow gets to Heaven you won't be there to kick up a muss." [Mr. Hanna tried ineffectually to interpose what is supposed to be a laughable comment.] They charge that there is a corrupt bargain and sale in this letter--an offer to buy the position of United States Senator. We say when we vote, that to all these bad acts of other men, whatever they may be, we are opposed; and we are opposed to anything bad in Will. Cumback, but we do say there is not a shadow in that letter upon which a charge can be founded.
Mr. FOSDICK. Mr. Chairman: I wish to define by position, and give the reasons why I shall vote as I intend to. As the gentleman from Porter [Mr. Church] says there is no charge--no offer or bargain in this letter and that he will vote with that understanding, I wish to say this: that I have looked at this matter in every light in which I am capable of doing it, and after careful reflection I can only come to this conclusion: that the gentleman is mistaken in relation to its containing only a suggestion. He is right in its containing a suggestion, but upon that suggestion is based an offer that those who will vote in favor of this resolution believe amounts to a bargain or offer as an inducement to the Governor to make the appointment. The offer that is made in this letter is this: after having repeated the suggestion in which he says that the individual who will have the appointment will have the best chance before the Legislature. He then says: if you will assure me of the appointment I withdraw from the contest for any position upon the State ticket and take another place, Now gentlemen, what was the inducement? What was it he asked? Appoint me to the position of United Slates Senator and what will I do? I will withdraw from the position I aspire to, or have aspired to, to be a candidate for Governor upon that ticket. This is the proposition that is made, gentlemen, and the Lieutenant Governor himself regards it as a proposition, for he immediately says that if this proposition does not meet with your approbation please return this letter. Did he not regard it as a proposition in which there was something to be done by him and by the Governor? I cannot regard it in any other light. It is the construction that every man will put upon it, and I think Governor Baker was justifiable in putting the construction upon it that he did. After looking it over I have come to the conclusion that it does contain such a proposition, and without regard to anything but the duty I owe to myself, to this Senate and the people that elected me to fill this position here, I shall vote my disapproval of the proposition in that letter; consequently I shall vote for the resolutions.
Mr. GRAY. I give notice that I have a resolution that I shall offer as a substitute for ths subject matter now before the Committee after the matter now pending is perfected.
Mr. ROBINSON of Decatur. I believe it was a general agreement all round last night that this question was to be submitted to a lull Senate, and the fact is evident that the Senate is not full now. I move that the Committee rise for the purpose of ascertaining if we have a quorum.
The CHAIRMAN. It is evident that there is a quorum present. The Chair decides that there is.
Mr. ROBINSON of Decatur. I have no doubt but that there is a quorum present, but the understanding was that there was to be a full Senate when the vote is taken.
Mr. GRAY. I think as a matter of courtesy the Committee ought to allow my resolution read.
Mr. FISHER. No ad vantage could be gained by its reading.
The second resolution, as amended, was adopted upon a division--affirmative 28, negative not counted.
The third resolution was adopted without a division.
Mr. Gray's substitute, which had previously been sent to the Secretary's desk, was then read. It embodied a resolution that the Senate has no jurisdiction over the subject matter of the correspondence.
page: 115[View Page 115]Mr. FISHER. That resolution is not in ii-r for it is in substance the same resolution as the Senator's from White, which these resolutions we have adopted is an amendment of.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair maintains that it is the same proposition.
Mr. GRAY. It is not.
Mr. JOHNSTON of Montgomery. The resolution is out of order entirely. We had a resolution containing three propositions; a division was called for; the vote was taken on each propostion and now the entire is adopted substitute for a similar resolution to the now offered.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair decides that resolution of the Senator from Randolph [Mr. Gray] is not in order. The question is he adoption of the resolutions as amended.
Messrs. GRAY and RICE appealed from the decision of the Chair to the judgment of the Senate--
The PRESIDENT pro tem, having resumed the chair for the consideration of the appeal by Senate.
On motion by Mr. JOHNSTON, of Montgomery--
The appeal was laid on the table upon a division--affirmative 26; negative not counted.
Mr. CRAVENS moved that the Senateagain resolve into a Committee of the Whole for the purpose of completing the business before the Committee.
Mr. HUGHES moved to amend by limiting the time to five minutes.
The amendment was agreed to.
Thereupon the President pro. tem. vacated and Mr. Bellamy resumed the chair.
Mr. WOLCOTT, in explanation of his vote, said: The fact transpired before this body had an existence as such, and therefore this body has no jurisdiction of the fact.
Mr. STEIN. Was not the gentleman a member of the Senate of Indiana at the time?
Mr. WOLCOTT. Yes, sir.
Mr. RICE. I move to strike out in the last resolution the word "dishonorable" and insert the word "improper."
VOICES--"No." "No."
The CHAIRMAN. There is objection made to striking that out.
The resolutions as a whole were then adopted without a division.
Mr. HUGHES moved that the committee rise, report the resolutions to the Senate and ask that they be made the special order for Monday, at half past two o'clock, p. m.
The motion was agreed to.
The President pro tem, took the Chair, and the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole reported as instructed, to-wit:
Mr. PRESIDENT:
The Committee of the Whole Senate, to whom was referred the message of his Excellency, Governor Baker, and the accompanying correspondence, have had the same under consideration, and have instructed me to report the following resolutions,and recommend their adoption; also to recommend that they be made the special order for next Monday, at two and a half o'clock, p. m.
RESOLVED, That the appointing power vested by the Constitution of the State in the Governor is a high and sacred trust to be exercised exclusively for the honor and welfare of the whole people of Indiana; and that any attempt to prevent the honest discharge of this trust is in derogation of their rights and merits, their severest condemnation.
RESOLVED, That in the opinion of the Senate the letter of Will. Cumback, the present Lieutenant Governor of this State, dated January 6, 1868, and addressee to Governor Baker, embodies an improper attempt to tamper with the integrity and destroy the independence of the appointing power vested in the Governor.
RESOLVED further, That in the opinion of the Senate the action of Governor Baker in promptly repelling the dishonorable proposition contained in said letter of Will. Cumback commends itself to all good citizens as a just example of conduct which should ever characterize the repositories of the appointing power in our system of government.
The report was concurred in by the Senate.
Mr. CHURCH ofiered a resolution, which was adopted, that when the Senate adjourn it adjourn till Monday at two o'clock p. m.
Leaves of absence were asked and obtained for Messrs. Smith and Armstrong, and the Assistant Secretary and Doorkeeper.
And then--
The Senate adjourned till two o'clock p. m. Monday.
