HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
THURSDAY, December 21, 1865.[Continued from p. 251]
The SPEAKER took the Chair at 10 o'clock a. m. and directed the Clerk to read the journal of yesterday.
On motion by Mr. GROVES, the further reading of the journal was dispensed with, and it was authenticated without reading.
Mr. STRINGER called for the Special Orderthe consideration othis concurrent resolution in relation to the State Prison System.
Mr. HIGGINS asked for unanimous consent of the House to introduce a resolution.
Mr. STRINGER objected.
Mr. BROWN moved, That the consideration of the Special Order be suspended for the space of two minutes.
The motion was agreed to. Whereupon
COUNTY AUDITORS AND COMMISSIONERS.
Mr. HIGGINS submitted the following:
Resolved. That His Excellency, the Governor, be requested to withhold his approval of Senate bill No. 270. [increasing the fees of County Auditors and Commissioners.] for the reason, that it has not passed this House.
And be it further resolved. That the Senate be informed that said till has not passed this House; and that the Senate be requested to return said bill to this House.
It was adopted.
STATE PRISON SYSTEM.
The SPEAKER announced the Special Order for this hour, viz: the consideration of the following concurrent resolution, introduced yesterday by Mr. Stringer:
Be it resolved by the House of Representatives of the State of Indiana, (the Senate concurring.) That the governor be authorized to appoint a committee of three competent business men, whose duty it shall be to visit the State Prisons North and South, & thoroughly investigate the books and accounts of the same; to compare the workings of the present Prison System since its organization, with the workings of the Lease System during the preceding ten years - making such investigations and presenting such facts and figures as shall enable the next General Assembly of the State of Indiana to legislate intelligently in relation to Prison Affairs: and that it be their duty to report at the next regular session of the General Assembly of the State of Indiana.
Mr. COLLINS proposed to amend..by striking out "three," and inserting "one,''? It constitute the committee.
Mr. STRINGER. One man alone could not investigate this matter as satisfactorily as three. It is a matter of considerable public importance to know how our Prison Affairs are managed. I cannot accept the amendment.
Mr. BURWELL. Neither the resolution nor the amendment should be adopted. The Legislature in its wisdom has seen fit to appoint standing committees on the State Prison North and the State Prison South'; and it was the duty of these committees to investigate the prisons and the prison system, and recommend such legislation thereupon as they think proper, These committees being properly constituted, he preferred to act upon their judgment, rather than upon the recommendations of any committee that might be appointed by the Governor. He moved therefore, that the resolution and pending amendment be laid on the table.
Mr. HIGGINS and Mr. BRANHAM hoped the motion would be rejected.
Mr. STRINGER and Mr. BRANHAM demanded the yeas and nays, and they were ordered and taken, resulting - yeas 25, nays 47 - as follows:
YEAS - Messrs. Bird, Bonner, Boyd, Burwell, Collins, Dunham, Foulke, Gregg, Hargrove, Lemon, Litson, Miller, Montgomery, Reese, Rhoads, Rice, Roach, Spencer, Stewart, Stuckey, Sullivan of Scott, Thacher, Veach, Weikel, White and Zeigler - 25.
NAYS - Messrs. Atkirison, Branham, Burnes,Buskirk, Chambers, Church, Cook, Cowgill, Cox, Croan, Davidson, Ferris, Gleason, Gregory of Montgomery, Gregory of Warren, Groves, Harrison, Henricks, Hershey, Higgins, Hogate, Hunt, James, Lane, Lockhart, Lopp, Major, Meredith, McVey, Newcomb, O'Brien, Olleman, Osborn, Pinney, Prather, Ritord, Sabin, Sim, Stenger Stringer, Trusler, Upson, Welch, Woods and Mr. Speaker - 47.
So the motion was rejected; and the question recurred on the amendment.
Mr. LOCKHART. He had been opposed to allowing the prison committees to visit the prisons, on account of the difficulty of getting a quorum to do business in the House; and the time that remains of the session would not be sufficient to make any investigation. If he had been informed correctlyand his information was from a gentleman having every opportunity to be correctly informed of the condition, of the State Prison Norththat prison certainly ought to be investigated. Its management was an outrage upon the people of the State; and he would support any proposition to appoint men to go there and investigate it. This was not saying that the standiag committees would not do the work as well; but the time would not suffice for them to do justice to the case. And he would have this committee instructed to gonot to the Warden's house and eat his dinners, but to the hotel for their living, and act for the interests of the State. "For he had no doubt that every corrupt influence would be brought to bear upon these men. We want the facts reported - the stubborn facts - without fear or favor.
Mr. BOYD, I do not know, really, but we ought to send up from this House some instructions to the Governor; although, of course, he would be perfectly free to obey them or not. Judging from the character of the outside pressure here, the Governor would likely appoint none but lawyers on this committee - and probably tbose who have already received large shares of the patronage of the State.
Mr. GROVES. I may be permitted, as a member of the Committee on the Southern Prison, to say, that I examined this resolution before it was offered, and I approved page: 254[View Page 254] proved it. I am not satisfied that it is in proper shape; but, that some investigation ought to be had in regard to the management of the State Prisons is most evident. For, at every session of the Legislature, we are called upon for large appropriations for these institutions, which, I think, ought to be self-supporting. It has been well observed, that, now, time will not admit of examinations by the regular committees, such as ought to be made. And I believe it is the desire of the present officers of the Southern Prison, that the examinations, if made at all, should be made by competent persons. We do not ask tor lawyers, in the rtsolution, but for competent business men. I hope the House will pass the resolution, and that the committee will be appointed ; and I have confidence in the Acting Governor, that he will appoint men who.will make at satisfactory report. So that the next Legislature will be able to legislate understandingly in the matter.
Mr. COLLINS. lam in favor of this investigation, but I would have it at the least expense. I am perfectly willing that the Governor should appoint ; and if he fail to appoint the right men we will hold him responsible. If the Governor appoint three men on this committee, there will be an expense of at least three thousand dollars. I believe that one man, and one third the money would be sufficient for the work. The standing committees, which ought to have investigated the State Prisons, were refused the time to do so. These investigations ought to be made with direct reference to the facts, and the question whether the State Prisons ean be managed any better or not. For, if our State Prisons were to fail, of becoming self-sustaining, I would vote to abolish the whole system, and let each county provide for its own criminals.
Mr. NEWCOMB proposed to amend the amendment of the gentleman from Adams, by inserting "two" instead of "one;" and thereupon he demanded the previous question, but immediately withdrew it for -
Mr. HIGGINS. He trusted that the resolution would be adopted. Impressions adverse and prejudicial to the management of the Prisons seemed to have gone out into the community; and if true, or whether true or not, the Prisons ought to be investigated and the facts made known. Especially ought this resolution to be adopted, since, as has been remarked, the regular committees have not had time to make the investigations. And this proposed connilittee ought to be composed of men capable of understanding books, and knowing what belongs to the building of a prison - as, the price of building materials and the rates and terms of contracts - matters which a committee of the Legislature might not at all times be prepared to investigate fully. He did not believe that the officers of the Northern Prison have acted corruptly, as repeatedly charged on this floor; but he knew that a large amount of money has been expended on that prison; and he knew also, that such a prison cannot be built for a small amount of money: as he had stated on a former occasion, prisons have been ejected in other States costing two or three millions of dollars. He did not wish to make an extravagant outlay in this direction, but we must have institutions of this kind insome respects like our sister States. He objected to the amendment of; the gentleman from Adams, [Mr. Collms,] and preferred a square vote on the original resolution. As he took the floor with a pro-I mise to do so, he renewed the demand for the previous question.
Mr. COLLINS accepted the amendment of Mr. Newcomb.
Mr. MILLER objected.
Mr. GRIFFITH appealed to the gentleman from Marion to withdraw the previous question.
Mr. NEWCOMB declined to withdraw the demand.
There was a second to the demand, and the main question was ordered, viz: Shall "three" be stricken out, and "two" inserted in lieu?
Mr. STRINGER (being entitled to the floor under the Rules) said he had but a single word. He had no more interest in this matter than any other member. But it was most evident that an investigation should be made not only of the books and accounts of the Prisons, but of the comparative workings of the two Prison Systems. This was a matter of considerable importance to the people of the State. As to the question whether one or two men could do better than three, he considered that two would be better than one, and three better than two. There should be at least two, and they ought to be capable business men. Two would be more likely to employ a clerk, and the clerk would cost as much as the third man on the committee. It was due to the officers of the Prisons, as well as to the people of the State at large, that these investigations should be made; and they were nessary for the guidance of future legislation.
The House rejected the amendments; and then the resolution was adopted.
JEFFERSONVILLE HOSPITAL.
Mr. NEWCOMB. from the special committee on his resolution Empowering the Governor, in behalf of the State, to accept the gift of the Jeffersonville Hospital tendered by the General Government, reported the papers back to the House without recommendation; and, by unanimous consent, it was taken up.
page: 255[View Page 255]Mr. N. said: There has been no provision made by the Legislature for our disabled soldiers and seamen; and in order that it may someway subserve this purpose, if the Governor can get this Hospital without cost to the State, wrought to authorize him to do so, It will involve no liability, and it is worth from, two hundred thousand to three hundred thousand dollars.
Mr. LOCKHART. Will any liability to pay money come with this gift?
Mr. NEWCOMB. Not a dollar.The original resolution could not be found, and so the matter was passed over for the present.
THE JUDICIARY SYSTEM.
Mr. BUSKIRK submitted the following:
WHEREAS, it is an admitted fact, that we have the most imperfect, defective and expensive Judiciary System of any State in the Union;
And Whereas, experience has demonstrated that there is not time, during the session of the General Assembly, for any member or committee to prepare a bill changing such system; Therefore,
Resolved by the House of Representatives of the State of Indiana, (the Senate concurring,) That there shall be appointed a Committee of Fivethree from the House of Representatives and two on the part of the Senate - with authority to set during the vacation of the Legislature, who shall take into consideration the defects in the present Judicial System of the State, and report to the next General Assembly such a System of Courts as shall tend to greater efficiency and economy.
Resolved, That the members of such Committee shall receive, during the time they shall remain in session (to be paid by the Auditor and Treasurer of State, upon the certificate of the Chairman thereof,) the same pay as now fixed by law for members of the General Assembly.
Resolved, That the State Librarian shall provide said Committee with a suitable Room and Stationery.
Mr. BUSKIRK: wished simply, that these resolutions be laid on the table for the present, and he would call up the subject this afternoon. He moved that it be made the special order for two o'clock P. M.
It was so ordered.
JEFFERSONVILLE HOSPITAL.
The SPEAKER now directed the House to the consideration of the pending report from the Special Committee on Mr. Newcomb's proposition for acceptance of the Jefersonville Hospital.
Mr. NEWCOMB read the Report, embracing a concurrent resolution for the transfer of the United States Hospital at Jeifersonville to the State of Indiana. He moved to amend the resolution by striking out these words : "And be directed."
Mr. BRANHAM. Is not this Hospital on leased ground?
Mr. NEWCOMB. Yes.
Mr. BKANHAM. What is the amount of the rent?.
Mr. NEWCOMB. About $3.000.
Mr. BRANHAM. And are we to pay it?
Mr. NEWCOMB. I do not propose to pay any rent at all.
Mr. BRANHAM. How are you to get out of it?
Mr. NEWCOMB. This Legislature has expressed its disinclination to make any expenditure for a Soldiers Home: hence this resolution does not contemplate paying rent, because there is no appropriation for it. The entire scope of the resolution is, that the Governor may accept this property as a gift. Those who probably will have this property in charge, by permission of the Governor, will find some means of paying the rent, But I do not know that the Sanitary Commission will occupy it at all. They may; or they may not be turned out of the City Hospital.
Mr. BRANHAM. Suppose they accept this property, are not they or we responsible for the rent? It seems that the Hospital must be removed; for, if not, then the whole of the property will belong to the owners of the land. I am afraid we shall be "getting an elephant."
Mr. NEWCOMB. Can't we sell the property?
Mr. BRANHAM. Does the resolution authorize the Governor to sell? Gentlemen talk about this property being worth three hundred thousand dollars. I do not believe it would sell for fifty thousand.
Mr. NEWCOMB. Perhaps not, if you force the sale. But the resolution proposes to give the Governor a discretion. I move to add to the resolution this further discretion to the Governor: "Or make such other disposition of such property as to him may seem most advantageous, for the benefit of such disabled soldiers."
Mr. BRANHAM was sure that the owner of the land will not grant any more privileges than he is obliged to;it belongs to the notorious Jesse D. Bright. Mr. B. would incorporate this amendment: "The State shall not be liable for rent."
Mr. NEWCOMB would submit this further amendment, which would cover the idea: "Provided, that no obligation which he may give shall bind the State to pay rent for the General Hospital."
Mr. OLLEMAN demanded the Special Order. But -
On the motion of Mr. COFFROTH, the House took a recess till 2 o'clock P. M.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The SPEAKER laid before the House the following communication from the State Librarian, which was read and ordered to be spread upon the journal:
OFFICE OF STATE LIBRARIAN, INDIANAPOLIS, Dec. 20th, 1865. To the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives:
Gentlemen: In accordance with the resolution of your honorable body, I herewith transmit to you my report of the Stationery Account of the Officers and Members of the House.
From the fact that purchases have been made for both branches of the General Assembly, the bills
page: 256[View Page 256]have been furnished to either House, dividing as near as possible the pro rata expense of both bodies. Many items upon the bills of stationery furnished the committees of the House, were used by the Senate, and vice versa, many articles upon bills allowed in the Senate, have been used by the House. Duplicate copies of all the stationery bills are upon file in the Library.
You will find in the accompanying tables the various articles furnished to the members of the House each under the appropriate heads, and the total amounts carried out.
It will be seen that the clerks of the House have managed their department with the most rigid economy having used, during the entire session, but $285.30.
We have kept a faithful record of the account of each member, which may be seen in the Library by any one Who may wish to examine our books.
Thankful for the expressions of good will received at your hands, and the free and friendly feeling that has existed between us in our mutual relations I am, as ever, respectfully yours,
B. F. FOSTER, State Librarian.
RECAPITULATION.
| Total amount of Stationery account furnished to Clerks of the House | $250 87 |
| Amount drawn by Clerks of the House on private account | 30 00 |
| Amount drawn by Doorkeeper | 1000 |
| Amount drawn by Committees of the Ho | 167 17 |
| Total amount of Stationery, Stamps, etc., funished to Members | 1395 77 |
| $ 1853 31 |
To meet the above expense I have furnished the Committee on Claims with bills as follows:
| Nov. 28th. | Stationery from Chandler & Co. | $194 90 |
| Dec. 12th. | Stationery from Chandler & Co. | 229 95 |
| 18th. | Stationery from Merrill & Co. | 243 30 |
| 18th. | Stationery from Chandler & Co. | 66 40 |
| 20th. | Stationery from Merrill & Co. | 99 10 |
| Money drawn for Stamps | 500 00 | |
| $1333 65 |
We had on hand in the Library, in the beginning of the Session, quite a large amount of Stationery turned over by the Clerks of the last General Assembly. This we exhausted before making any purchases. The combined amount of Stationery, etc., furnished both branuhes of the Legislature is $3271.49. The amount purchased, as per bills rendered, is $2744.85. Thus leaving $526.64 furnished from paper on hand.
We have now in the Library about two hundred dollars worth of Stationery, which, in addition to that placed upon the desks of members at the opening of the session, will make near $1000 worth furnished from the stock on hand at the beginning of the session.
Trusting that the above Report will prove satisfactory to vour honorable body, I am, as ever, respectfully, yours,
B. F. FOSTER, State Librarian.
ADJUTANT GENERAL'S REPORT.
Mr. COWGILL, in behalf of the Select Committee to which was referred Mr. Branham's resolution in relation to the printing of the Adjutant General's Report, asked and obtained unanimous consent to submit a report thereon, which was read by the Clerk. It recommends the adoption of the concurrent resolution from the Senate in relation to this matter, described in page 230 of these REPORTS.
The report lies on the table under the rules.
Mr. COWGILL moved ineffectually to lake up the concurrent resolution from the Senate on this subject.
JEFFERSONVILLE HOSPITAL.
Mr. COFFROTH demanded the unfinished order, viz: the consideration of Mr. Newcomb's concurrent resolution, authorizing the Governor to accept the transfer of the United States General Hospital at Jeffersonville - the question being on the adoption of Mr. Newcomb's amendment, adding these words: "Or make such other disposition of such property as to him may seem most advantageous for the benefit of said disabled soldiers."
Mr. BRANHAM. Was it proposed that the Governor accept this Hospital and turn it over upon any conditions?
Mr. NEWCOMB. It was to be accepted upon the same terms as the Tripler Hospital was accepted by the State of Ohio. The Governor is to receipt for it in the name of the State.
Mr. BRANHAM. So it does not prove to be "an elephant," he did not care fof the rest.
Mr. HAMRICK. If it should be desirable to lease the ground for a short time, he supposed that the parties managing the institution could do so for a small price.
Mr. DUNHAM. The whole of the matter is just this: If you do not make some new arrangement, as a matter of course, at the expiration of the lease, this property will be entirely under the control of the landlord. This property can do the State no good, unless we remove it; and, if Governor Morton will make some provision for the removal and sale, I will vote for the resolution. I do not think that the amendment accomplishes the object gentlemen have in view. It does not direct the Governor to sell.
Mr. COFFROTH. He has a right to make such disposition as he pleases of the buildings.
Mr. DUNHAM. I would like to hear the resolution read with the amendment.
It was read by the Clerk accordingly.
Mr. BUSKIRK. I have in my hand a copy of the lease of this property by the owners to the United States Government. The Government rents the entire 125 acres, and agrees to pay $25 per acre annually - which makes the rent a little more than $3000. The lease has this condition: The party of the second part reserves the right to remove all the buildings, fencings, &c., at the expiration of the lease, or to dispose of them by sale or otherwise. The rule of the Common law requires that the improvements of the tenant shall be removed during the term of his lease. But this changes the principle of the Common law so that they may be removed "at the expiration of the lease." This gives time for removal of the buildings, &c., after the expiration of the lease. I have seen these buildings, and I know that the/have cost a great deal of money. They all can be very easily removed, except the Sewer. page: 257[View Page 257] This property is within a hundred yards of the corporate limits of the city of Jeffersonville.
Mr. COFFROTH proposed to amend further by adding this: "Nothing herein contained shall be construed so as to make the State liable for the subsequent rent of the property."
Mr. DUNHAM. It takes two parties always to make a bargain. This lease expires before the next meeting of the Legislature.
Mr. BUSKIRK. The lease expires the first of June, 1868. But there is a further provision, that, if the General Government should need the property longer, they may retain it.
Mr. DUNHAM. The General Government no longer needing it, can they assign that right to the State?
Mr. BUSKIRK. No longer than the first of June.
Mr. DUNHAM. Then on the first of June this property will fall to the landlord. After that time the State cannot take any right in it.
Mr. MILLER. Suppose the State does not remove the property at the time, will the State loose anything?
Mr. DUNHAM The State does not loose anything, but Mr. Bright and the other parties, landowners with him, do. - But, as he indicated the other day, he was utterly opposed to making an asylum, a home for soldiers, within this State. Whilst he was entirely willing to give all the assistance that may be necessary in the way of pensions, in all cases where the United States Government does not furnisla a sufficiency for the support of the soldier, yet he was unwilling to erect this proposed Home. He had taken some little observation of the workings of these Homes. You have one - a Seamans' Home at Evansville, and another at Louisville; and they were both of them utter failures. The class of suffering soldiers and seamen most entitled to the aid of the State, were the very class that did not get it. He appealed to the gentleman from Vanderburg, us to whether the advantages of the Marine Hospital at Evansville have justified its expenses. There might have been use for it during the war, but before that time he doubted whether twelve men in a year have been relieved by it. Such institutions were failures for this reason: These men want social life - the affections of home - the associations of friends - the pleasures of mixed society - not the mere hermitage of a place devoid of all these. - This resolution was but the entering wedge. It proceeded upon the supposition, that the end which can not be accomplished now, may be accomplished hereafter.
Mr. NEWCOMB. He had before stated to the House, that there is a necessity for something to be done for our disabled soldiers. The gentleman had said he was opposed to a Soldiers Home: so would be torn, if such an institution were not necessary. He had been to see this litfle Soldiers' Home at this city. This Home was now supplying the necessities of nearly fifty men - and they have applications for more - men wholly disabled by the war, and having no family, no relative in the world to look after them - some of them taken out of the County Poor Houses: (he said it to the disgrace and shame of the counties where they belong :) and, if we now frown down this institution, there would be hundreds left in the same helpless condition whence these men have been rescued. He stated a fact, that many of these men came out of the County Poor Houses, the receptacles of all the vice and debauchery of the country! He represented the entire success of the man-angement of the Soldiers' Home by the Sanitary Commission, organized and maintained by the voluntary benevolence and humanity of the State. And here were buildings which the State can supply to this institution costing nothing. And, if the State were to sell out this property at once, under any circumstances, it could not go for less than fifty thousand dollars.
Mr. DUNHAM (in his seat.) If it is the intention to dispose of the property, I say amen to it.
Mr. NEWCOMB. That was the intention: and he would thank the gentleman for any better language than he had offered to express the object. The resolution proposes that the Governor may lease this property to a private association: it proposes also, that he may do as he pleases with it.
Mr. DUNHAM. If you provide that he shall dispose of it prior to the expiration of the term of the lease. I will not object.
Mr. NEWCOMB. We do not know but the Association inay make terms with the owners.
Mr. DUNHAM. What I want is this: That there shall be an absolute release ef the State from responsibility ; for, otherwise, we know very well, that the State will have to pay the rent.
Mr. NEWCOMB. No sir: there is no authority, no appropriation, no money, to pay. The Governor may dispose of it, and report to the next Legislature. That is all. We want to provide an Asylum for our wounded and disabled soldiers. Of course, if these owners will not make terms by which the Governor or the Association may hold this property where it is, it will have to be sold. But, if they can make terms, the needy soldiers will, at once, have a comfortable Home.
Mr. HIGGINS demanded the previous question; but gave way for -
Mr. BUSKIRK, who desired to amend by adding this; "And if the Governor page: 258[View Page 258] cannot make an arrangement with the owners, without the State becoming responsible for the rent, then he shall sell the property before the expiration of the lease - the proceeds to be applied by him for the benefit of disabled Indiana soldiers."
Mr. DUNHAM. "Of which he shall report to the next General Assembly."
Mr. BUSKIRK accepted the amendment
Mr. NEWCOMB. I accept that in place of the last amendment I offered.
The previous question was then seconded and the main question was ordered, resulting in the adoption of the amendment and of the concurrent resolution as amended without a division.
THE JUDICIARY SYSTEM.
Mr. BUSKIRK called up the Special Order for this hour, viz: the consideration of his preamble and concurrent resolution for the appointment of a Joint Committee to consist of five members of this General Assembly - three on the part of the House and two on the part of the Senate - with authority to sit during the vacation of the General Assembly, and take into consideration the Defects of the present Judiciary System of the State, and report to the next General Assembly such a system of Courts as shall tend to greater efficiency and economy; said Committee to receive the same compensation as members of the General Assembly - the State Librarian to provide them a suitable room and stationery.
Mr. HAMRICK proposed to amend by striking out "five" and inserting "three" in lieu; so as to read: "Two [members] from the House and one from the Senate."
Mr. PRATHER moved to lay the subject on the table; but, upon importunity of members, immediately withdrew tne motion.
Mr. BUSKIRK had in his drawer a paper of facts and figures, (which he was not now able to find) showing something of the expensiveness of our Judicial System - the expenses of the Circuit and Common Pleas Courts, the expenses for County Commissioners Courts, and of the Supreme Court, including the cost of records, &c. The preamble to the resolution, he said, recites a fact, that we have in this State the most imperfect, the most defective and expensive Judicial system of any State in the Union. But it is also a fact that, at every session of the Legislature an effort is made for the purpose of changing the system. During the last session, the gentleman from Huntington [Mr. Coffroth] was chairman of a committee of one from each congressional district, which devoted weeks of time to a bill on that subject; but owing to the shortness of the time of the session, they were unable to perfect the bill. And there was uot a member of that committee - not a legal gentleman on this floor, but would admit that this resolution involves a question of economy. Thousands of dollars might he annually saved to the State and the people by a change in our Judicial System. He estimated an annual saving to the State of from fifteen to twenty thousand dollars, which would be effected by the organization of a more efficient system. Herein was the extent of his interest in this matter. He neither desired nor expected himself to be placed on such a committee, but, if he were at liberty to make the suggestion, he would respectfully ask that the gentleman from Huntington be placed upon this committee, not only because of his eminent qualifications and fitness for the position, but because he had already spent some time in the investigation of the subject.The expense of the committee would be small, especially if the amendment of the gentleman from Putnam [Mr. Hamrick] prevail ; and their report would furnish the next Legislature with a bill for this object, prepared and perfect in all its parts,which could be taken up and acted upon without any great delay.
Mr. DUNHAM concurred in the remarks of Mr. Buskirk regarding our Judicial System as one of the most cumbersome and expensive in the world, and had no doubt that it could be improved in everything so far as concerns the expense of litigants and the administration of justice. But he must say that he differed with the gentleman as to the mode of accomplishing this object. He would not appoint a committee of the General Assembly: and he alleged that no man entirely competent to revise our Judicial System could afford to Serve for the pay which the gentleman proposes. He did not know what that gentleman does, but as for himself, he could not afford to go to the Squire's office and make an action without a fee
Mr. BUSKIRK. I do not go there at all
Mr. DUNHAM. Yes, sir. But if I have nothing else to do I will go to the Squire's office and make five dollars if I can. My pride is not above that. But even I could not be employed for five dollars a day. If the resolution were to appoint a commission of about three of the best jurists in the State, I would go for it with all my might. And, as the General Assembly know who are the best lawyers, I would select them by ballot or concurrent vote, He repeated his concurrence in the opinion, that our Judicial System is the most defective, cumbersome and costly of any Judiciary in the world ; that - it ought to be revised, and he had no doubt that the State would be immensely the gainer.
Mr. COFFROTH also concurred in the opinion, that our Juclical System needs mending. He thanked the gentleman from Monroe for the compliment in the suggestion of his appoiantment; and he also concurred page: 259[View Page 259] in the opinion of that gentleman, that he was competent to discharge the duties required by the position; but he was compelled to say, that, for personal reasons, he could not accept the appointment. But other gentlemen of the House were more competent than he.
He also rehearsed the reason for the failure of the report of the special committee of last session, appointed to consider and report a new Judicial System. It was impossible for them to do the work in the time prescribed. The work would involve a revision of nearly the whole of the Practice Code.
Mr. DUNHAM suggested two members of the proposed commission - Hon. Joseph E. McDonald and Col. Baker, Acting and Lieutenant Governor of the State.
Mr. COFFROTH. No better selections could be made than those named by the gentleman from Floyd. It was utterly impossible for a committee of the Legislature to devote sufficient time for this work. If any remedy was to be obtained, it must be by means of such a commission.
Mr. PRATHER. The best revision of the Statutes we have ever had was that made by Gov. Bigger, Judge Test and George H. Dunn. He also considered that five dollars a day is not a sufficient compensation for the service of a farmer, a mechanic, or any competent business man. He coincided in opinion as to the fitness of the nomination suggested by the gentleman from Floyd, admitted the importance of the work, and since it was too late for this body to provide compensation for the commission, he would leave that to the succeeding Legislature.
Mr. BUSKIRK.There are two McDonalds. The appointment of one of them was suggested: did the gentleman understand which?
Mr. PRATHER. One of them is on the bench of the U. S. District Court, and the other was a candidate for Governor.
Mr. COFFROTH suuggested that it is not in order on the floor to refer to distinguished gentlemen by name.
Mr. BUSKIRK said he was enabled, by the suggestion of one of these gentlemen with whom he had spoken, to say to the House, that his practice at this time is rather too extensive and profitable to allow him to accept an appointment on such a commission; and that gentleman suggests further, that, at this time, we can appoint no man outside of our own body.
Mr. PETTIT (Mr. Henricksan the Chair) said: there was he thought, one feature in the resolution involving an objection, - and doubtless it had already suggested itself to the minds of gentlemen. Our power is simply legislative; and the moment that departs from us, or we depart from that, our power is simply advisory. Now, by concurrent resolution, it is not possible for us to open the door of the Treasury and take money. The third section of the tenth article of the Constitution declares, that "No money shall be taken from the treasury, but in pursuance of appropriations made by law." Therefore a concurrent resolution alone cannot have any force whatever in this direction.
Mr. BUSKIRK. It was decided by the Judiciary Committee, that, where an appropriation has been made for Legislative expenses, the House, by resolution, can direct payment for services ordered. But the objection is well taken, because the resolution ought to provide that the committee shall be paid out of the appropriation for the expenses of this session.
Mr. PETTIT. One of the first acts of this session forbade the application of any money to Legislative expenses, unless specified in the law. Hence, it is not competent for the House, where appropriation has been made for Legislative expenses, to turn round and apply it to any other purpose by resolution.
But there is another consideration here. This thing cannot be done, because our legislatve power is ended. We can do nothing. Our power now is only advisory, unless it is for the perfection of a previous law by us enacted, as the appropriation bills passed yesterday, The General Assembly continues, it is true, without the Governor, because he forms no part of it: but where an appropriation of money is made, it requires the Governor's ratification. - He trusted that gentlemen would insist on maintaining the authority of the good old constitution, - at the same time admitting, that it is matter of regret, that, by joint resolution, we have not made some provision whereby our Judicial System may be reorganized, as this resolution contemplates.
Mr. PRATHER. Would it not be competent for this Legislature to authorize the revision, and leave it for a subsequent Legislature to pay the expense? For we are now without power to appropriate money. We are sitting here simply to receive messages from the Governor. We are a Legislature without power. We may direct the Governor to appoint the commission, but he is not compelled to obey the direction. We are robbed of power. When the clock struck "twelve" last night, it stript us of all legislative authority, unless convoked again by the Governor. The resolution deserves the favorable consideration of the House; therefore I move to strike out the two last clauses, and modify it so as to let it stand simply as matter of advice to the Governor; and let the commission receive what the next Legislature may please to give them.
Mr. OLLEMAN. I move to lay the resolution and pending amendments on the table.
page: 260[View Page 260]The yeas and nays thereon resulted yeas 47. nays 30 - as follows:
YEAS - Messrs. Atkinson, Bird, Bonner Boyd, Branham, Brown, Burnes, Burton, Caldwell, Collins, Cowgill, Cox, Croan, Davidson, Ferris, Foulke, Glazebrook, Gleason, Goodman, Gregg, Gregory of Montgomery, Gregory of Warren, Groves, Hargrove, Henricks, Hershey, Higgins, Hoover, Hunt, James, Kilgore, Lasselle, Lemon, Lopp, McVey, O'Brien, Olleman, Osborn, Prather, Sabin, Shuey, Stewart, Stivers, Stringer, White, Woodruff, Woods, and Mr. Speaker - 47.
NAYS - Messrs. Burwell, Buskirk, Chambers, Coffroth, Cook, Dunham, Griffith, Hamrick, Harrison, Hogate, Humphreys, Lane, Litson, Lockhart, Meredith, Miller, Milroy, Newcomb, Pinney, Reese, Rhoads, Rice, Roach, Spencer, Stenger, Stuckey, Trusler, Veach and Weikel - 30.
So the subject was laid on the table.
MILTARY AUDITING COMMITTEE.
Mr. BUSKIRK. There was a matter to which he desired to refer - his attention having been called to it by the gentleman from St. Jo. and the gentleman from Delaware. Last night the Senate adopted an amendment to the General Appropriation bill, by which they repealed that section of the law of the last session which created the Military Auditing Committee. He thought the discharge of this Committee was injudicious at this time. That Committee had saved hundreds of thousands of dollars to the State. Not a single claim audited by that Committee had been rejected by the General Government. Being advised of the Senate's amendment discharging this Committee, he was requested to offer an amendment continuing their functions till March, to enable them to dispose of the business now before them. He did so; and it was adopted and went to the Senate. He was just now advised, that two members of that Committee considered that amendment as a reflection upon them. He desired therefore to say now, that nothing was farther from his intention than to cast the slightest reflection upon the faithfulness, integrity and ability wish which these gentlemen have discharged their duties. The amendment was ottered simply to prevent injustice to the soldiers. I regret very much, that the Senate did not adopt that amendment, because, without it, so many soldiers of the State of Indiana, who have hereetofore been looking to this Committee, have now to look directly to the General Government for their claims
Mr. NEWCOMB. No member of the Auditing Committee should consider that action of the House as implying any want of confidence in his integrity or ability. - Gentlemen remember how it was. When it was observed that the Senate had stricken out from the House bill the clause providing for the continuance of that Committee, the gentleman from Monroe, (being at the time surrounded by his crowds of friends, and hid from the eye of the Chair,) stated to me, that he had an amendment to save cases before the Committee, and, as a matter of accommodation to him, I took the amendment from his hand through the crowd of hid friends, and offered it for him. I regard the three-members of that Committee as highmind-ed men, and I am sure that no member of thejlouse would have voted for that amendment had he regarded it as a reflection upon either of them.
Mr. KILGORE, as a member of the Auditing Committee, had not regarded the action referred to as any reflection upon himself or the Committee. In fact, the amendment offered by the gentleman from Monroe, was moved, to some extent, upon his suggestion. He desired to say to the House, that, perhaps yet before we come to the final adjournment, this Auditing Committee will submit a report: and, as one of the members of that Committee, he desired that their conduct should be carefully scrutinized. He had no fear that their action would be condemned by the people that pay tfoe taxes. It would be found, as stated by ihe gentleman from Monroe, tbat this Committee has saved thousands upon thousands of dollars to the State of Indiana, It was for this reason, and not that he was desirous of being here at $5 a day, that he desired this Committee to be continued till March, because he had no doubt that hundreds of dollars would be saved thereby.
Mr. HENRICKS (in the Speaker's chair pro tem.) The objection to the amendment was not on account of any supposed feeling on the part of the House towards the Committee: for I am satisfied that no member of the House will charge the Committee with acting improperly: but the amendment permitting them to sit longer in order to close out their business was a seeming implication as though they had not done the public business in such a manner as to be willing for it to be closed out by other hands. I do not and have not at any time charged any member of the House with the intention to reflect upon the Committee.
Mr. COWGILL renewed his motion to take up his resolution; but -
MONROE DOCTRINE - RULE OF NEUTRAL AND BELLIGERENT RIGHTS.
Mr. BROWN called for the Special Orde.
The SPEAKER (Mr. Henricks in the Chair.) Was the resolution of the gentleman from Wabash made the Special Order for 2 1/2 o'clock?
Mr. PETTIT, It is my impression that it was.
The SPEAKER. The Special Order will be taken up.
Mr. NEWCOMB. I move to postpone Special Order till to-morrow morning nine o'clock.
VOICES. "No, no."
Mr. NE0WCOMB. Well, I withdraw it.
page: 261[View Page 261]The Clerk then read Mr. Speaker Pettit's concurrent resolution on the subjects of Foreign Interference with Mexico, and the Rule of Neutral & Belligerent Rights; together with a Report thereon submitted by the Chairman and a majority of the Committee on Federal Relations, recommending that the same do pass. -
The resolution follows.
RESOLVED by the House of Representatives, the Senate concurring therein, That it is the sense of this General Assembly, in reference to the existing state of things in Mexico, that the United States should respectfully, but firmly,assert and maintain, against foreign governments, at all proper times and places, [and by means entirely adequate to effect it ,] the separate and independent right of that people, without any foreign interference, influence or control whatever, to continue, or establish and maintain the government and policy of its own choice,.and, especially, to assert and maintain, that this question shall not be allowed to be affected by the introduction by foreign governments of foreign levies, mercenaries, arms or military provisions into that country; and that every future or further attempt at such influence, coutrol or interference will be justly regarded as aggressive and injurious to our own policy and interests, and to ourselves.
Be it further resolved as the sense of this General Assembly, That, without any purpose of forsaking the just and humane obligations of national friendship and comity, as required by public law, and especially when strengthened by treaties of amity, by which the United States has been steadily governed, but, as a means of compelling conformity to the same rule by other governments, it is the duty of the United States, until the obligation of the rule is acknowledged by them, to apply to such other governments, the same construction of Neutral and Belligerent Rights, as to their internal and external enemies, they have applied to us, in derogation of the public law.
Be it further resolved, That the Governor be requested to communicate copies of these resolutions to the President of the United States, and to the State's Senators and Representatives in Congress.
Mr. DUNHAM called the attention of the Chairman of the Committee on Federal Relations to the fact, that, as one of the members of the Committee on Federal Relations, during these two sessions, he had never yet known the place where they met: and, as to this particular report, he did not know that it had been made.
Mr. PRATHER. It is not the fault of the Chairman of the Committee.
Mr. PETTIT. There is an amendment to the resolution proposed by the gentle man from Floyd, which has not been read. It is to strike out words in brackets.
Mr. DUNHAM. In the first line of the second page strike out these words: "And by means entirely adequate to effect it." - The reason he moved to strike out these words is this: The resolution indicates a disposition on our part, that, if it becomes necessary to involve the country in war to maintain the doctrine of the resolution, we will do so. He did not think it good policy to pledge ourselves faster than the the times and circumstances require. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." - We should be left free to declare and maintain our policy as circumstances arise. - This was his reasen for the amendment. - He would not now take up time in debate.
Mr. PETTIT desired the vote; but he would not ask for the previous question if any gentleman would, pursue the discussion. - The first proposition in his resolution announced what he called the American Doctrine. It was sometimes called the Monroe Doctrine. He preferred the former designation, because, in Mr. Monroe's message to which the name is referred, the doctrine is not very clearly indicated. Not long afterwards it was announced with more clearness by Mr. Webster; and then a good deal plainer by Gen. Jackson. - The words proposed to be stricken out amount te this : In the original resolution we say, that we stand by this American Doctrine, and intend to maintain it by adequate means. In the proposition as it would stand with the amendment of the gentleman from Floyd we say, that fwe will fetand by the doctrine, but we do riot say how far we will stand by it. - The second proposition in the resolution is what has long been conceded as public law amongst nations. That is, all nations bear similar relations to the great family of nations. It has the force of a contract resulting from a treaty, and binds all to this : That if any two members of the family become involved in war with each other, no other member of the family shall take any part in the contest. By this, public law it is understood, that, if we are engaged in civil dissensions, France, England, etc. are bound to stand aside and give no aid to our enemy. They are to stand aside until the new government; has gained a positive superiority, and then the authorities of the rebellion may be admitted as a new nation into the family. But, as our civil war resulted in the overthrow of the rebellion, they were bound by this public law to keep their people out of the controversy. But now, in our late civil dissension, France and England both evaded this doctrine, and asserted in their diplomacy, that they are not bound by it any farther than by any local law of their own. The second proposition in the resolution is that we will stand by this old principle of public lawthat we will keep our people out of the quarrel to which we are no party. Then we say, What we concede to other nations they shall concede to us: But, if other nations do not concede this to us we will apply the same rule to them which they apply to us.till they return to the acknowledgment of this old principle of public law. -
Mr. DUNHAM (in his seat.) In that I entirely concur.
Mr. PETTIT. With regard to the amend ment proposed by the gentleman from Floyd, he was not clear as to whether it would not be best to adopt it; because, at this time, the effect of the resolution can be only advisory: and he trusted, (for, any event, it could only have the weight page: 262[View Page 262] 2of an expression of our opinion,) that the spirit of the resolution would be carried out by the President of the United States; and it certainly would lose all its offensive character, by yielding that much to the gentleman from Floyd. But if the resolution doos not embody a vital principle of Republicanism, he would be glad to liear the views of the gentleman from Floyd. or any other gentleman, before the vote is taken.
VOICES. "Vote," "vote," &c.
Mr. CHAMBERS and Mr. KILGOE demanded the yeas and nays, and they were ordered.
Mr. DUNHAM. The resolution as it now stands, says in advance, and under all circumstances, that this government shall pledge itself "to fight it out on that line:" in other words. Maintain the Monroe Doctrine under all circumstances, by force of arms. He did not think we ought to go that far, but wait till the time comes for action, and then judge of the necessity of the case. His amendment admitted the strengest assertion of the doctrine, but struck out that part by which we pledge ourselves to maintain it by force of arms.
Mr. KILGORE. Some gentlemen here say they do not understand what would be the effect of the amendment. I understand that the resolution, if adopted as proposed to be amended, will be an attempt to drive Maximillian from Mexico - by resolution. [Laughter.]
Mr. DUNHAM. Either way, it says, Drive him.
The vote on Mr. Dunham's amendment resulted - yeas 41, nays 35 - as follows:
YEAS - Messrs. Atkinson, Bird, Branham, Brown, Burnes, Burwell, Buskirk, Cook, Cox, Croan, Dunham, Foulke, Glazebrook, Gregory of Warren, Griffith, Hamrick, Harrison, Henricks, Hershey, Hogate, Humphreys, Hunt, James, Lane, Lopp, Newcomb, Osborn, Pinney, Rhoads, Rice, Roach, Shoaff of Allen, Shoaff of Jay, Stivers, Stuckey, Thacher, Upson, Weikel, White and Woods - 41.
NAYS - Messrs. Abbett, Bonner, Boyd, Chambers, Coffroth, Cowgill, Davidson, Ferris, Gleason, Gregg, Gregory of Montgomery, Hoover, Kilgore, Lassalle, Litson, Lockhart, Miller, McVey, Olleman, Prather, Reese, Riford, Shuey, Sim, Stewart, Stenger, Trusler, Veach, Welch, Wright and Mr Speaker - 35.
So the amendment was adopted, and the question recurred on the adoption of the resolution as amended.
Mr. LASSELLE. I hope the resolution will pass. The Monroe Doctrine (as we say) has been sound Democratic doctrine for forty-five years.
Mr. DUNHAM asked for a division of the question, and would give his reasons for it. He had always been in favor of the Monroe Doctrine; and he believed it the duty of this government - the controlling government on this continent - to secure to all the people of this continent their right to a republican form of government. He had always been in favor of this Monroe Doctrine; but, so far us this proposition is concerned, in the present aspect of the country especially in view of the course of the present Congress he regarded it as a most consummate mockery. We say here in this resolution, that it is the right of all people to govern themselves; and we say that we will pledge ourselves to secure to the Mexican people tbe right of a republican government, whilst this day we are refusing to apply this doctrine to the people of the Southern States of this Union, lately in rebellion, but who have been conquered and have submitted; whilst we are this day crushing these States under the heel of our power, and denying them all right of voice in this government - and these are seven millions of our own peopleflesh of our flesh and blood of our blood; whilst we are doing this, he regarded it as a mockery to adopt such a sentiment as this resolution embodies. If this resolution is not a mockery, then he could not understand what a mockery is. Here are States which never had the right to secede but their citizens went into rebellion simply as citizens - and now we have compelled them to submit to the laws by the strong arm of the government, and now, since they have submitted, so far are you from saying to them that they are their own rulershave the right to control their own affairs that you undertake to dictate government, constitutions, laws, and institutions to them. And you call that a republican government! It could'nt make much difference (he thought) when we talk about tyranny, whether you have one tyrant, or thirty. The most accursed tyranny in history was that of Venice, And when thirteen millions of people undertake to crush out the liberties of seven millions he did not say that the seven millions should not be compelled to submit to republican government but when they do submit, and when you say that the thirteen shall dictate to the seven their own republicain government, you have got a tyranny - just thirteen millions of tyrants instead of one tyrant. And, So help me God, I would rather have the one. For, when you have got but one, you can hold him responsible, as one that you can strike. But when you have got thirteen millions, you have got a many-headed monster that you cannot strike. Now you give it out to tht world, that you will defend republican government in Mexico, whilst you give to these submissionists at home no republican government! Whilst he was in favor of the doctrine of the resolution, he was unwilling to hold up his hands in this hypocritical way before the world. -- For this reason, he asked for a division of the question. He would like to speak more at length, if his strength would permit; but he had not been able to sit up for'the last twenty four hours. But when the gentleman introduced page: 263[View Page 263] the resolution - the first one - it it struck him as a most consummate mockery: giving out, Don Quixotte-like, that we will secure the liberties of a race of foreigners, that have no sympathy in common with us, - and yet the gentleman and his friends are advocating a policy that crushes out the liberties of one-half of our own countrymen!
Mr. SIM. The gentleman from Floyd appears to concur with the gentleman from Wabash in his endorsement of the Monroe Doctrine; but whilst he does so, he seems to be so bound down with party ties, that he cannot avoid a feeling of opposition to the passage of the resolution The Republican party, together with all, good and true Democrats, have rescued this Union from the hand of Rebellion, and forced the Slave Power to succumb thank God! - to succumb forever. And now it behooves this government to stand forward and before all others, to secure the boon of Liberty, not only to all within her own borders, but to all men, of whatever race or crime, throughout the world. Does not the gentleman know, that if these lately rebellious States were not held down by the hand of power, they would again rebel ? Does he not know, that they still hate the Union, and the Cause of Liberty and Freedom to all mankind as much as when they first instituted the rebellion? There is then no inconsistency in Union men advocating the Monroe Doctrine, and its extension over the earth - advocating the support and maintainance of their own institutions, especially upon the American Continent. There is nothing inconsistent with this doctrine in the history of our, party. It is in accordance with the principles we have alweys expressed, to deprecate all interference on the part of foreign despots with republican institutions upon American soil.
Mr. OLLEMAN demanded the previous question; but immediately withdrew it for -
Mr. BROWN, promising to renew the demand when he shall conclude. Whilst he agreed generally in the facts submitted by the gentleman from Floyd, he could not agree with that gentleman as to the course of conduct he marks out. That gentleman starts out with an admission, that the resolution, in principle, is correct; but he says the resolution ought to be voted down, because the Congress of the United States is not governed by its principles! Sir, I am happy to see gentlemen belonging to the party, which the gentleman from Floyd charges with being guilty of the crime of violating the principles of this resolution, coming forward here with propositions for the support and maintainance of those principles which, for the last forty-five years have been maintained and supported by the Democratic party. The only question with me here is this: Is the resolution right in principle? If it is, I shall vote for it. I care not whether the practice of men charged with the administration of the government be different or not; if the principle be correct, the government should uphold and maintain it. And, whether the government be doing so at this time or not, is not a consideration that should govern the conduct of men when brought to the test as to whether we do or do not endorse the principle. If the gentleman from Floyd desires to place the mark of condemnation upon those men who are administering this government, because they are not conducting themselves towards our fellow-citizens in conformity with the spirit or this resolution, in my judgment, it would be the better way for that gentleman to make it an original proposition, and let the House express its sense upon, it. But I do not understand how gentlemen can do justice to themselves - I do not think this resolution can be treated with the consideration to which it is entitled - if we are compelled to govern nor votes upon it by the conduct of the officers of this government. The only thing that ought to govern our votes should be our consciences in determining the question whether the principle contained in the resolution is right or wrong. Principles are eternal, whilst the actions of men are vascillating, and inconstant, and sometimes infamous. That which is right will speak for itself in this resolution. A government of right principles, in my judgment, will stand out and vindicate itself, 1 care not who may undertake by bad conduct to cover it up. If others are not pursuing the course of public conduct which this resolution demands. I hope gentlemen will not so far blind and stultify themselves, as, for that reason, to vote against the resolution - I now renew the demand for the previous question
The demand for a division, of the question was not pressed.
There being a second to the demand for the previous question, the House proceeded to the vote on the adoption of the resolution, which resulted - yeas 73, nays 1 - as follows:
YEAS - Messrs. Abbett, Atkinson, Bird, Bonner, Boyd, Branham, Brown, Burnes, Burton, Buskirk, Church, Coffroth, Collins, Cook, Cowgill,Cox, Croan, Davidson, Ferris, Foulke, Gleason, Gregg, Griffith, Groves, Hamrick, Hargrore, Harrison, Henricks, Hershey, Hogate, Hoover, Hunt, James, Kilgore, Lane, Lasselle, Lemon, Litson, Lockhart, Lopp, Milligan, Montgomery, McVey, Newecomb, O'Brien, Olleman, Osborn, Pinney, Prather, Reese, Rhoads, Rice, Riford, Roach, Shoaff of Jay, Shuey, Sim, Spencer, Stewart, Stenger,Stivers, Stringer, Stuckey, Thacher, Trusler, Upson, Veach, Weikel, Welch, White, Wright, Woods and Mr. Speaker.- 73.
NAYS - Mr. Higgins.1.
So the concurrent resolution was adopted
page: 264[View Page 264]ADJUTANT GENERAL'S REPORT.
On motion by Mr.BRAHAM, the House now took up the concurrent resolution from the Senate for the printing and distribution of the Adjutant General's Report, authorized by resolution of the last Regular Session. [See Senate Proceedings of December 19.]
Mr. HIGGlNS. I move to strike out the fifteen hundred copies that are to be sold by the Librarian. I do not want the State to embark in the Book Business, that is a branch of business which I do not think properly belongs to the State.
Mr. SHUEY was informed by a soldier now in town, that all the Indiana officers and Soldiers of the war are waiting anxiously to get this Report. It seemed to him that the number, 1,500 copies, was too small for the demand. He hoped that at least this number of these books would be furnished tor the class of purchasers he had indicated.
Mr. GREGORY, of Warren. When he went home last Saturday, the first inquiry that was made to him was whether these books can be bought? He gave his volume to Maj. Weldon. The boys are all anxious to have them. I move the previous question.
There was a second for the demand, and the main question was ordered.
Mr. BRANHAM. I will suggest, that the Committee at first, determined to strike out fifteen hundred; but the demand for books appeared to be so great as to leave no doubt, that they would every one be taken up as soon as the edition Is printed. There can be no more copies.
Mr. BROWN. Is the work stereotyped?
Mr. BiiANHAM. It is not stereotyped.
Mr. HIGGINS' amendment was rejected.
Mr. GLEASON. I think it would be very wrong indeed to deprive our citizen soldiers of the poor privilege of purchasing this Report
The SPEAKER (Mr. Henricks in the Chair.) The amendment is not adopted. The question is on the adoption of the resolution.
The resolution, was adopted without a division.
BOOKS AND ARCHIVES OF THE INDIANA HISTORICAL SOCIETY.
Mr.NEWCOMB submitted the following:
A Concurrent Resolution authorizing the State Librarian to receive the books and archives of .the Indiana Historical Society -
Be it Resolved, (the Senate Concurring,) that the State Librarian he and he is hereby authorized to receive in his charge and care, the books, record, archives and property of the Indiana Historical Society, from any of the Officers thereof, and preserve the same with the property of the State Library.
Mr. NEWCOMB, There was a historical association in this City organized a number of years ago, which is now really dissolved, and their room is soon to be vacated. We want the Librarian to take charge of their effects.
The resolution was adopted.
MANAGEMENT OF THE SINKING FUND.
Mr. COWGILL submitted a concurrent resolution for inquest into the management of the Sinking Fund by the commissioners thereof - whether any profits have enured to any member of said Board of Commissioners by the neglect or unauthorized use of the moneys belonging to said fund, &c.
Mr. MILLER proposed to amend by way of substitute,authorizing and instructing the Governor to appoint three discreet persons to inquire and report to the Governor of the State live particulars in regard to the management and use of the sinking fund by the President and Board of Commissioners thereof.
[Both the resolution and substitute were read by the clerk too rapidly for sketch.]
Mr. COFFROTH said if he had heard them aright, the five propositions of the substitute met his approbation. He preferred the request that, in the appointment of this Committee, the party which at the last election was shown to be in the minority in the State, (but which he believed was now in the majority,) should not be entirely ignored, as was the case in the appointment by the Speaker of this House of the Military Auditing Committee and the Committee on the Adjutant General's Report. He made this request on the behalf of the seven or eight hundred thousand Democrats actually represented on this floor, as well as on the behalf of the President (Mr. Talbott) and one of the remaining four members [Mr. Ricketts] of the Board of Commissioners, Unless this Committee can be made into shape suph as that the minority can have some show, everything that may come from it will have a show ot distrust. Evening before last, in discussing the Sinking Fund bill, he made the statement, that one of the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund [Mr. Harrison] having under his control a hundred thousand dollars belonging to this fund, had used it for his own benefit and realized a profit of $10,000. Mr. Aquilla Jones, was his informant, that Harrison admitted to him that he had made $10,000 in this manner. He thought he was entirely justified in making the statment on the authority, of Mr. Jones, who is known in this community as a hightened, honorable gentleman, and as having occupied high and responsible positions ot honor and public trust. But since that time Mr. Jones had come to him and informed him that Harrison had seen him and satisfied, him, that on the former occasion he had misunderstood Mr. Harrison; and Jones as an act of justice to his neighbor, now requests that this statement be made on this floor, that he had misunderstood Harrison as to the saying that he had made ten thousand dollars out of the use of this fund page: 265[View Page 265] He would do injustice to no man - friend or foe - political friend or political enemy.
Mr. DUNHAM also explained that he had understood the other night, that these Commissioners felt it to be their duty, tinder the laws and the action of the Legislature at the last session, not to loan this fund, and that they had made these deposits acting under what they supposed was the desire of the Legislature, and for the best interests of the State. In his remarks on the Sinking fund bill, he now stated to the House that he indulged no intention to cast censure upon the Board of Commissioners of the Sinking Fund, or any member thereof.
Mr. MILLER. If the Legislature, at the last session indicated anything, was it not that this fund should be put into the bonds of the State?
Mr. COFFROTH. I wish to amend the resolution, so as to say, that one of the three shall be a Democrat,or, that they shall not all belong to the same political party.
Mr. MILLER. I am authorised to say for the Lieut. and acting Governor, that he will appoint a Democrat on that Committee.
Mr. COFFROTH. If Governor Baker says so, that is enough.
Mr. DUNHAM. I have no desire to censure any one, for I have no reason to do so: still, if any were deserving of censure, I would not withhold it. What I said was to vindicate a friend from what I considered an attack upon him.
Mr. NEWCOMB wished this investigation of the Sinking Fund. The other night he did censure some of the members of the Board for using this money in bask - he said they were not bankers for the State, He would say this for Mr. Harrison, that he has been exceedingly liberal in times when the State needed money. The House of Harrison & Co. he understood, has loand as high as $100,000 to the Government with no other assurance than the good faith of the Governor.
After further explanations with reference to the deposit by Mr. Ricketts of $160,000 in the House of Lyons & Co., by the advice of the President of the Board, &c., and Rickett's declaration of refusal to settle till certain outside speculations in gold shall be closed out, &c., in which Messrs. NEWCOMB, HIGGINS, DUNHAM, COFFROTH, and BRANHAM took part - from which it appeared that the pending resolution had come from a Committee of the two Houses which had been in consultation with the President of the Board of Sinking Fund Commissioners -
Mr. WOODS demanded the previous question, and there was a second, and the main question was ordered.
Mr. COWGILL. My purpose in introducing the resolution was, that theremight be an investigation in regard to the manner in which these funds have been used, and for whose benefit. It was drawn hastily, and requires amendment. I am willing to accept the substitute offered by the gentleman from Tippecanoe [Mr. Miller.] I have this further to say in regard to the matter: I am satisfied that the duty of these officers was plainly prescribed by law; and the report made by the President of the Board of Sinking Fund Commissioners must show to the satisfaction of every one, that they have not discharged their duty, as the law required; and therefore I think it proper that there should be an investigation. At a time like this. when the State is deeply involved in debt, it cannot be right, that nearly $800,000 of the funds belonging to the State should be idle for three or four yearsnot earning anything for the State, As far as the appointment of the Commissioners is concerned, I am willing to trust that to Governor Baker: and if he can find a Democrat in all the State whose loyalty is unquestioned - and if there is one I think he can find him - I have no objection to his appointment.
The resolution, as amended was then adopted.
CLOSING COMMITTEE FILES.
Mr. BRANHAM, from the committee on Ways and Means, submitted the following, which goes on the journal under the rules.
Mr. SPEAKER. The Committee on Ways and Means, beg leave to report that all Matters referred to them have been considered and disposed of with the following exceptions. Engrossed Senate Bill No. 118 and House Bill No. 233, which are herewith returned to the House, and they farther report that the Books and papers appertaining to the business of said Committee and also the Record of Proceedings, of the joint Committee on the State Debt have been deposited in the State Library, for which the receipt of the State Librarian has been taken, and is appended to and made a part of this report.
D. C. BRANHAM, Chairman.
OFFICE OF STATE LIBRARIAN, INDIANAPOLIS, Dec. 21st 1865.
Received of S. A. Hoover. Esq., Clerk Committee of Ways and Means, House of Representatives, the Books and papers belonging to said Committee. Also Books and papers of the joint Committee on the State Debt. Also balance of Stationary on hand.
B. F. FOSTER,
State Librarian.
STATE AGRICULTURAL COLLEGE.
Mr. HAMRICK asked leave to submit the following: which was read for information.
Resolved That the Commission heretofore appointed in the matter of the State Agricultura
page: 266[View Page 266]College are hereby authorized to give public notice, that they will receive donations of lands, buildings, moneys, &c., for the purpose of founding and building the Indiana Agricultural College, and that they submit such donations as they may receive to the next Legislature for approval.
Mr. BUSKIRK. I object to the introduction of the resolution.
The SPEAKER. (Mr. Henricks in the Chair.) The resolution is not before the House.
Mr. COFFROTH moved an adjournment, but gave way for -
TAXATION OF NATIONAL BANK SHARES.
Mr. PETTIT, (Mr. Henricks in the Chair,) asking for leave of the House to submit the following:
Resolved by the House of Representatives, the Senate concurring therein, that, having been informed that in some instances the Shares of National Banks organized before the first of January last under the Act of Congress of June 3d 1864, entitled "an Act to provide a national currency, secured by a pledge of United States Bonds and to provide for the circulation and redemption thereof," have been omitted from the taxable property, listed and assessed for all purposes of taxation, it is the sense of this General Assembly that the same is subject to taxation for the year 1865 and thereafter; and that it is the duty of the officers of the respective counties, charged with the assessment and collecting of taxes to cause the same to be assessed; and that taxes be collected thereon for the present year and hereafter in compliance with the laws of this State.
Mr. COFFRORH. Mr. Speaker -
Mr. PETTIT. If the gentleman will allow me -
Mr. COFFROTH. I would be in favor of the resolution if we could possibly pass it. Let it pass over now, and we will call it up in the morning, and take a vote on it.
Mr. PETTIT, I have been at some pains to inquire and look into the statutes to show that the law does not -
[Interrupted by cries of "Order," and "Nothing before the House."]
Mr. DUNHAM. Mr. Speaker. I rise to a question of order. I say the gentleman's remarks are out of order, because there is nothing before the House.
The SPEAKER. Will the House hear the gentleman from Wabash?
Mr. COFFROTH. Hear him upon what?
VOICES. "Upon what?" "No, no!"
The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Wabash is entitled to the floor.
Mr. DUNHAM. I rise to a question of order.
Mr. PETTIT. Mr. Speaker, I have offered a resolution -
Mr. DUNHAM. But it has not been received.
The SPEAKER, The gentleman from Wabash will proceed.
Mr. PETTIT (Speaking over interruptions by Mr. Dunham and others standing up and demanding to be heard on the order.) Does the gentleman suppose that what has been asserted here in my absence is law? - I am prepared to show, that the change of the law of 1863 was for the very purpose of conferring the power upon the States to tax the General Government bonds when used as bank stock.-
Interruptions by Mr. DUNHAM, Mr. BROWN and others suppresed the remarks of Mr. Pettit. - When the authority of the Chair prevailed, and gentlemen were seated in order -
Mr. COFFROTH, insisted on his motion to adjourn, which was lost on a division showing no quorum.
Mr. PETTIT. I demand a call of the roll, or to be heard hereby a quorum.
The SPEAKER directed the clerk to call the roll.
Mr. SIM moved an apjournment.
Mr. PETTIT. All I can say is, - I can not maintain the floor if the House is not willing.
Mr. DUNHAM. I am not willing -
Mr. PETTIT. It is for the very reason that the gentleman is unwilling, that I am in the habit of yielding.
Mr. OLLEMAN moved an adjournment.And then (at 5.30 p. m.) the House adjourned till to-morrow mourning nine o'clock.
